EPISODE 44: HOW TO MAKE MORE HAPPY & JOY WITH THE MOYLE SISTERS
MEET SABRINA & EUNICE MOYLE
Eunice Moyle and Sabrina Moyle are bi-racial sisters, moms, and creative collaborators who grew up in Asia and Africa. Their early experiences in international communities, immersed in non-Western culture, gave them a global perspective and appreciation for diverse ways of living, connecting, and creating.
In 2003, they decided to found a greeting card studio, Hello!Lucky, and have since expanded to book publishing, products, and children’s media. They have published 21 books for adults and children all of which can be found on their website, hellolucky.com, or wherever books are sold!
Follow them on Instagram:
@helloluckycards
@helloluckykids
SHOW NOTES
“The only person's opinion that matters is your own and your own opinion consists of that compassionate voice that you needed to hear as a child. Like, that is your true voice.” - Sabrina Moyle
In this episode of F*ck Saving Face, you’re going to hear how Sabrina and Eunice Moyle, sister duo and co-founders of Hello!Lucky find joy in their own lives – no matter what age – and how they inspire others to cultivate and create that kind of happiness, too. Having been raised in Asia, Africa, and the United States, the two share their unique lens on culture, including how to bridge your experiences, especially if you were raised in environments that had so much more structure or rules around what was accepted and okay, and what was not.
We also cover:
Hello Lucky’s Kids’ Books
Jon Kabat-Zinn’s Mindfulness Meditation
Kristin Neff’s About Self-Compassion
FULL TRANSCRIPT
This is going to be such a fun interview. I speak with sisters Eunice and Sabrina Moyle, who are the illustrator writer team behind Hello! Lucky. They're a woman owned and operated design studio based in San Francisco, California. They make these fun, pun-loving cards and kids' books and home and gift products for both the young and the young at heart.
And they've been featured in target, urban Outfitters, whole foods, buy, buy baby, and many, many, many more places. They're also biracial and moms, and they grew up in Asia and Africa. So these early experiences where they were immersed in non Western culture, gave them this global perspective and appreciation for all the different ways that we can live and connect and create.
And if you go to their Instagram, I think that you will fall in love with all of the amazingly sweet designs. For me, my happy place is to go into a stationary store and buy all the journals. I love seeing the gorgeous designs and creativity and witty little sayings and just how I don't know, happy it makes me feel to be in that space, which is a key theme throughout what we're going to talk about today.
It's the first time that I've interviewed two other people at once. So it's going to be super fun for the three of us to have a conversation. And for you listening in. And I love that the exploration is how to find joy. You're going to hear how these sisters in their own lives cultivate and create joy. No matter what age you are.
You'll hear one of the sisters talk about how she started hip hop dancing at the age of 48. So it's never too late. And ultimately really exploring how to tap into your feminine power, sensuality, sexuality, all of these things that you wouldn't expect, but all under the umbrella of how to find joy and happiness, especially if you were raised in cultures that were maybe a bit more rigid that had so much more structure or rules around what was accepted and okay and what was not.
I hope you enjoy today's session.
Welcome to the F*ck Saving Face podcast. I'm your host, Judy Tsuei, and together we'll explore mental and emotional health for Asian Americans, especially breaking through any taboo topics. Life may not always be pretty, but it is indeed beautiful. Let's make your story beautiful today.
Welcome to the fuck saving face podcast, where we break through a taboo topics and we really empower mental and emotional health.
So I'm really excited because I have a sister duo team here today. And Eunice and Sabrina Moyle, co-founded Hello Lucky. And in addition to being the cutest cards, you also have a line of children's books and, the whole messaging is about joy and empowerment. And there's just so many things to cover because we were talking before we jumped onto this recording.
And we were talking about, you know, being biracial, living in Asia, being like a third culture kid and raising our own children now and pursuing creative endeavors.
So I'm going to turn it over and also by the way, this is our first like trio interviews.
We'll try not to talk over each other too much.
But that's okay. I think all of the listeners. Yeah, they love being in the room with us.
So I'm going to turn it over to one of you to just kind of share how this idea for the greeting card lines started. And maybe if you want to also share, you both have very distinct roles within the company. So I'm just going to turn it over to you and let it be an organic kind of conversation between you two sisters.
Totally. Well, so Eunice and I grew up moving around every two to three years in Asia. Our dad was a diplomat and our mom was born in China raised in Taiwan. So. We were always each other's best friends. And I was describing it the other day as like we were each other's Nemo and Dory through this like.
Eunice is the Dory and I'm the Nemo apparently. It kinda works actually.
It just shows we’re a little bit of a space cadet.
So I mean the greeting card thing just came about because I mean, I think, you know, Eunice has always been this incredibly talented artists. I was always like, The perfect kid who could do anything, but it was like completely lost and didn't know what she wanted to do, no pressure.
So I went to liberal arts college and then I worked in the arts, you know, in the nonprofit sector. And then I decided to go to business school. I was like, okay, all these artists don't know how to put, they're all working like five jobs and don't know how to survive. So I'm going to go to business school so I can figure out how to like make the arts a thing that actually works and pays the bills.
And so I went to business school and that's pretty much after I graduated Eunice had been working in design and web design. It was the first web design boom, because we're dinosaurs and it had started gotten really letterpress. And you just, I mean, you can tell this part of the story.
Yeah. So I basically majored in printmaking and illustration only to realize that as a professional illustrator, you have to go door to door.
Not anymore, like the illustrators now I have like an amazing set of tools for themselves, but at the time, cause I am a dinosaur, you literally had to cold call advertising agencies and I'm like, I know I seem chatty, but I'm kind of an introvert. And that was for me, absolutely terrifying and torturous.
So I kind of fell into the web industry, which you know, was really not my jam. I had a job essentially designing corporate websites, which I mean, if you know our alignment, oh, he's exact opposite of my aesthetic. I had to do in semiconductor websites and things like that. Where I’d be like maybe, can it be a little hipper and they'd be like, no, can you make it unhip and I'm like, ah, so, so, you know, I kind of just meandered along.
I went to fashion design school cause I was also like sort of just trying to figure out what I wanted to do. And finally, like, I think almost to my thirties, we started, I started Hello Lucky. A little bit of an accident, I just took a craft-making class and a letter-press craft-making class. I loved it. And so being rather impetuous and obsessed with almost every craft technique, I just jumped in and bought a press off of eBay and looked out and found like a plate maker, which is the machine that makes the things you print on.
And I just started doing it in my garage and making things for friends. And I had a second job out of like sort of a boutique pet store and they needed cards. So I made some cards for them and it just kind of snowballed. And I sent samples out randomly to stores and somebody picked it up and Sabrina like looked at this and I was like, wait, this could actually be a business.
Like you can actually make money on this. And then it sort of snowballed from there. And we sort of meandered our way over the decades.
That's amazing. And I remember reading on your website as well, like you were featured in Martha Stewart, the card. Yeah. Can you tell us about like where the cards have evolved now?
I know that some of the other things is like the core principles that you have of, you know, the connection and this plays into your children's books as well. And so I'd love to hear about how you kind of like kept going with that.
Totally. I mean, we, we originally started with cards in part for practical reasons because you know, they're very easy and low cost.
And also having grown up in Asia and like gone to all these really cute Asian stationary stores, I think we were just naturally just like really into stationary. Yeah.
And I would just like to point out that our mother told us for decades, you should make cards. It'd be great. And we were like scoffing or we're like, what are you talking about cards when you have to sell to be able to actually make it viable, don't be silly. Like, oh, it's crazy.
And now you have a whole team making cards.
Right. Again, Yeah.
So we started out that way. It was just a really easy forum, you know, an easy, medium to get good art out there into the world. We just thought of it as a way to like democratize, create art and to foster connection. It was like, we start, we were founded in the year that Facebook launched.
So social media wasn't even a thing then, but the more we did it, the more we were like, oh my gosh, this is so important. Like the handwritten note, the written word is just so much deeper than all of this sort of performative stuff that you end up seeing a lot on social media. It's more authentic. And so we just kind of kept going with that.
And then, but then, you know, my, my husband is an economist and it was a 2009 financial crisis. And he was like, uh, you guys need to find a different way when we started doing custom wedding invitations for friends and stuff, but then he was like, oh my gosh, you guys need to find a different revenue stream because the economy is about to tank and the high-end letter press wedding invitations plus high ingredient cards might not survive.
And so we ended up going off on this sort of tangent for several years where we did e-commerce where we did e-commerce wedding of the patients. And they were all digitally printed. It was like a lower price point, but then that became such a grind and such a churn. And we realized, Hey, we can't, you know, around the time we applied to, there were other businesses that were very well VC funded.
Like we always just wanted to be a small business. We could never want it to become like huge, huge company. Yeah. It was always about lifestyle and balance. Exactly, exactly. So, you know, I think growing up in Asia, we were like, okay, small business is awesome. There's like so many small business owners around and like entrepreneurial family business, like that was kind of our jam, you know?
And so it's, anyway, we just realized like, oh, we can't really compete. And nor do we want to, with these huge companies, we're not interested in that rat race. And so we just, and we had kids too at around that time. And then we pivoted. And decided to just shut down the e-commerce. I partnered with another woman in business, a press in Portland, Oregon to do all of our printing and distribution for us, for greeting cards.
And then just started really focusing on what we do best is the creative content creation, right? The art, the writing, and that's how we ended up getting into children's books. Then we started licensing our art for home goods and different, you know, home products and gift products and stuff like that. So that's kind of where, how, how it all sort of evolved and where we landed today.
And it was really, I would say a path. Like, there was always this kernel of like, what is our path and purpose and passion from the beginning. But we had to sort of meander our way to really crystallizing that and realizing, okay, this is why we're making greeting cards. It's about joy, creativity, and connection.
And what else is resonant with that? Well, children's books actually really are resonant with that. And so for us to really grow. The heart of our business took some time, you know, and now I feel like it's very clear to us what we're doing and why we're doing it. And it's been a really awesome journey to be able to do together as sisters.
So totally, totally. And every mistake is a lesson.
So yeah, I love that approach too. So speaking of children's books, because you know, like you have a very unique childhood, you lived in Asia, even though you're biracial. And before we jumped on, we talked about how, you know, when I was living in Asia with my daughter who was also biracial.
The amount of attention that was put on her for her physical appearance was very strong. It's one of the reasons that I was like, ah, we gotta move back to the states. Like it's like a little bit much, but what was your experience like, you know, moving around and both being immersed in very Eastern traditions, you spoke Chinese and then also genetically, culturally, and also having another part of you is your identity.
Oh, go ahead. Sabrina. You start.
I mean, I think it was very complicated, but I would say we were exposed to and experience so much from such a young age, you know, so it was just the exposure and immersion and all these different cultures just really expanded the way that we think about things. I think it just wired our brains in a very particular way where we're very, open-minded very open to change, very open to different perspectives.
You know, so that was a big part of it. And then also we had to deal with a lot of trauma, like moving up every two to three years, like going into a new school, a new climate and culture, like having to make new friends, like, you know, so that was both painful. And we also learned a ton from it. And then you have like the culture clash at home, you know, so.
Oh, yeah, English when she had, uh, our dad got married, he's like this sort of like, you know, he's kind of repressed in his own way because he's a Midwesterner Midwestern, pressed Midwest repressed. And our mom was, you know, Asian repressed, you know? So we're in this like kind of super fifties, like household.
A lot of repression happening, get a lot of open-mindedness like our dad came from a family of scientists who were all academics, who studied biology. So there's this like huge love of books and learning and the nature and the environment, you know, our mom was also very creative, you know? And so there was a lot of crafting and cooking and, you know, teaching us how to knit and quilts.
And so there was a lot of amazing stuff, but there was also just like the tension of like, you know, the conflict between the two of them, which continues to this day. I mean, they adored each other but like so rigid and controlling, like everything that's. So, and our dad is like, we joke that he's got the soundtrack to the girl from Ipanema.
My mom's like why? And he's like, it's like, I'll chill on his head. Like you're driving me crazy. Yeah. But there are pros and cons, which we'll get to like this. I think one of the big things we got to talk about, like, there are just so much, there's so much goodness and so much wisdom in both of the cultures, in which we grew up in our home.
And then in all the cultures that we experienced. Everything for like, you know, we lived in Malaysia, which is majority Muslim country. We lived at Taiwan, communist China before it opened to the west. So really seeing what communism looks like in action was fascinating. So we just, it just gave us all this like, experience that I think has really led us to.
I mean, it's why I think we write the children's books that we do because we can see the sort of universal human experiences that are really true. That we want to make sure it gets centered in people's lives and children's lives and in parents' lives. And then we also can see just the value of self care, self compassion, you know, compassion for others, acceptance inclusion, you know, just, and things like mindfulness practices, just, just the, sort of the, the sort of cultivation of the spirit, you know, setting aside a lot, like all of the cultural baggage and all the stuff that's external and the striving and the survival.
All the things that we see people struggle with, but there's, there's something that's universal to the human experience that is so valuable. And just to it's like at the core, it's a core of living well, you know, that we kind of just want to mine and draw out through humor and through colorful illustrations and funny storytelling and stuff like that.
But that's what kind of brought us to really focusing on children and parents and family. How do we support those people at this very parents being a very critical time in their lives, where there's so much opportunity for growth when you have a child and so much opportunity to re-examine the way that you are particularly in here racing where things were not, you know, that were a little bit tough, you know, where you got traumatized.
And all of us had been traumatized, but like, especially if it was like a more repressive Asian type of type of upbringing, such a wonderful opportunity to just re-imagine and to do the work too. To kind of heal yourself and to, and to imagine something better and support something better for your child. So that's kind of how we've landed on this.
I love it. The, in units, before we jumped on, you were talking about how difficult it was to actually express your feelings. Oh yeah. Now you have like children's books that are all about, you know, and then I'm all about.
I'm constantly telling my kids, like, you know, talk about your feelings, like tell me how you're feeling like.
And, and, but I was saying to you earlier, is that it's so funny because of all that, you know, you just don't deal with your feelings, both in the Midwestern culture, they don't talk about feelings either and Asian culture. Don't talk about feelings. You know, this just isn't a thing. And so I was saying that when my, my husband proposed to me. I like the first time he had to kind of, he actually had to pull the record and like ditch it because I literally made a crazy face cause like romantic experience.
I just like could not pass that embarrassing, weird, like dunno, you know, and it took me years to like just kind of get a handle on that and be more expressive.
And it's still really hard thinking about when I had kids, you know, everybody was like, well, of course you're gonna. Teach your kids, Chinese, you know, and you'll send them to the Chinese school, obviously. Like, and I actually couldn't do it. I couldn't do it because, well, a I never learned to write because we'll put them all fly and made it about two seconds and then.
Like mom gave up teaching us. So it was harder on a technical level. It was harder, but it was also just like, I'm like, I couldn't face, I'm not that competitive. I couldn't face the whole like competitive thing and I couldn't face learning the language again. It was like, you know, it's a really hard language to learn.
So I actually raised my kids. Speaking French. And, um, but for what I've discovered, I couldn't say I love it even to my kids, but I could say it in French. And so like, I would say it in French and I would like, you know, give them all this like verbal love and, you know, social support in French. And then it took me years to be able to translate it to where I was comfortable to say it in English, but it was really like, that was an eye-opening experience, but I didn't even realize like how repressed about my feelings. I was like, you know, it was just a, it's pretty funny.
The kids definitely opened up my eyes there. Yeah. In the beginning, when I had my daughter, someone told me about this, like heart to heart parenting book. And when they were talking about it, it was saying like, as your child develops and ages, whatever trauma you experienced at that age will come up when you're talking.
That age. And so, um, yeah, it's been a really interesting thing and I'm, I'm so grateful that I had mothers around me who kind of like broke through, you know, other taboos, for example, saying like, it's okay. If you don't like bond with your child right away. It's okay. If like it takes you a while to like, create that connection.
Had, you know, this person not said that to me, I think I would have felt so much guilt and shame, like what is wrong with me as a mother that like, I don't know how to like express and then, you know, other things of like, oh, you're going to be like this bear. That's going to watch over your daughter. I'm like the people pleasing was so strong in me.
It took me so many iterations to get to a point and be like, please don't touch my daughter. Or like, please like, you know, give her some space. And so it was such a huge practice that again, Someone not like said these things to me, I would have just felt so crappy. Oh no, totally. I totally feel ya on the people pleasing thing.
A hundred percent. I mean, I even feel like sometimes I'm people pleasing with my kids and I'm like, ah, I'm teaching them learn helplessness. It's just like this thing. I mean, it's like halfway between like I'm super efficient in like a very stereotypical way. And so I'm like this, just give it to me. I'll just do it.
It's faster. And then on the other hand, The people facing aspect where I'm like, oh, you want this? Oh, well obviously I'll give it to you. I'm like, you know, all you have to do is wine once. And I give in like, you know, exactly. And I think that, you know, one of the things that this represents as well is we were talking about how there are so many different avenues towards healing and when it comes to mental and emotional health and, you know, I don't know.
Well, especially in my household, it was definitely was not something out the gate that we were like mental health. Yay. No, We experienced some trauma, let me go unravel all of these things on my own and then figure out like what kind of tools work for me. And so, you know, Sabrina, you were saying that for you, you're a writer, so words and that kind of expression, and you've been on the spiritual path, discovering different types of modalities that work.
And with Eunice, you were saying you're an illustrator. And so I'd love for you both to kind of talk about. You know how you've explored that mental and emotional health and, you know, tying it into, or my follow-up question would also be you're both women who are running a women owned business, collaborating with other women owned businesses and what that journey has been like too.
Yeah, well, so, you know, it's very interesting, as we said, like growing up in a pretty repressive kind of impairment love our parents to death, but it was pretty repetitive precedent, some ways. Right. I think I, I grew up feeling like I didn't really have much of a core to who I was, and this is partly, also just from, you know, moving around so much and all that stuff.
I felt like I lacked a core, like my identity was really just. Not very strong. And I was, you know, I remember being in high school and early college even having like suicidal thoughts. Right. And so it was really when I had my kids and, and what was interesting to me. Our mom being Asian, there was a lot, we saw the intercultural conflict, right?
So we, there was a lot that she was into that our dad would kind of be sarcastic and poopoo is superstitious. Right. You know, like Asian wisdom, traditional Asian wisdom, earth, LA Tia, yo, yet, you know, like right. That are spiritual in nature, but not religious. Right. But that would be kind of poo-pooed or, or disdainfully looked at, by the Western side of our family unit as being like a little bit, you know, sort of, or, um, or superstition.
Right? So it's like a loop resistance that, and then our dad grew up in a religious, somewhat religious. I think he was, he went to Sunday school and stuff, but he was pretty much an atheist, like being in a family full of stuff. He was just not, he was like, okay, you need to just find your own path. Like, so he, there was no guidance around the personal development as we were growing up.
So we were lifted left to our own devices. So that was interesting. And so, you know, the way that I ended up coming here to all of this after, you know, I remember in college, like the guy from the Christian fellowship tried to convert me because clearly I was looking for something. I was like, oh no, I'm sorry.
Like, it was very kind of fundamental. But then eventually, the way that I ended up on my path, that it was for science, it was through reading like Jon Kabat-Zinn science around mindfulness, and how that actually heals people who have traumatic, you know, recurring traumatic disorders or Kristin Neff who did research around the science of self-compassion.
And it was when I had my kids, I was like, something's got to give, I've got all these negative thoughts. Like I've got all this self-critical self-talk because our mom really believed that criticism was a form of love and really coaching and training and guiding your child. Criticism, you only criticize if you care, but you really love your child and want what's best for them.
Right. So, but that took a lot to unlearn, you know? And so, you know, so it was really through science that I said, oh, it started discovering things. Reiki or things like meditation, you know, and, and even, you know, reading spiritual texts and, and, and that from a whole bunch of different traditions and really being able to divide religion and all the negative baggage of religion and religiosity from spirituality, which is really about finding your own personal path.
And so, yeah, I mean, that's how, it's how it's arrived for me. Like, I've, I've just explored so many different things, everything from like, you know, energy healing to yeah. Chakras to, you know, Shamonic journeying to reading psychology and science. And there's just so many ways that you can get at it, you know, there's no limit.
And then, and then I'll put it over units and I'm like the exact opposite. Like if Sabrina's a seeker, I'm like, oh, I guess I'm sort of a secret, but in a different way, like my like sort of mental health thing is I find like my meditative state is, I mean, partially it's an art. Like that's definitely like I get into a flow and it's, I think very much like, um, sort of a meditation for me, but I always joke that my.
Spirit animal is like a golden retriever. Cause I'm just like going along things just, I don't, I'm just like, not that deep. So like, I'm like I roller skate. Like I sew my own clothes. Like I love to dance. I do. I'm like an obsessive. I do hip hop. With it, like, you know, so those are like sort of where I, like, I think fine sort of my mental health.
It's like my mental health practices, like creativity and exercise, and which is hilarious because I'm like not an athlete in any way, shape or form, but I like just love to dance. And I also have two left feet. So I tend to sort of, I was going to ask when you're very coordinated with like hip hop, hip hop, I love hip hop.
Well, the thing I wanted to do it forever and I, but I would always like, you know, like, oh, I'm, you know, I don't know. I'm very awkward. I'm really tall. I have really want, I, like, I basically looked like, you know, those waving things that they put out in front of gas stations, that's sort of what I always look like.
No matter what I do, because I just have really long limbs. Grace is not really like one of my things, but then one day, like a friend of mine was like, oh, just try this. It's really like, it's great. It's simple. It's not hard. And everything's in four, four time, you can do it. And I tried it and I just got completely hooked and I loved it and it was, and I feel like it's a dance to me.
It's just like an amazing way to it for somebody who has a hard time meditating, because I have a hard time shutting off my inner voice and not wandering off peace, but, uh, it's a meditation for me because you really can't think about anything else or you'll just get lost. And especially for someone like me, who's not naturally gifted at this stuff.
It really takes that sort of an intense amount of concentration to be able to follow and do it. And, but it's so satisfying when you actually can do it. And it is a practice cause like, you know, I, I started like four years ago and was absolutely crap at it. And now I, now I've kind of gotten to a point where I'm actually quite confident, even though, you know, I'm never going to perform in current again, but the value that sort of the self confidence that it brings.
Super valuable. And it's the same with roller skating. I mean, I started really skating at 48, which my husband, when I first told him that I was going to do it was like, am I going to have to like take it to the hospital? And spoon-feed you for the rest of your life, because you decided to start roller skating at 38.
And, uh, but you know, and it took a while, again, not very coordinated, but like, but you know, the other day I, I managed to shoot the duck and stand back up again and it was. The most empowering thing, you know? And so, yeah, I'm a big fan of that kind of meditation. I love that so much. I actually bought a longboard skateboard and my daughter was learning how to ride a bike.
And there's like this long pack here by the beach. And so I was like, you know what, I'm just going to go for it. And the joy that it brings me to something ridiculous. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm turning 43 soon. And I was just like, I must look ridiculous, like going down, but my dog. I feel like, you know, if you're just having so much fun, like the joy is like addictive and it's also just like so attractive to other people.
Like I have a whole club now of like six moms who are all like in her forties who were all like with our sparkly rollerskate laces. I love learning. No, no. The way that you're describing it, you're giving people permission to have fun. Cause I think that that's another thing that I did not learn growing up in my Asian household, but it's okay to have fun.
It's okay to do something for the pure sake of doing it for no other reason. It's not going to be productive necessarily. You're not going to get out of this. There's not going to be a grade, but you can still go ahead and go play. And I was like, So I love that you're giving people permission to do that.
And you're right. That there are certain activities that if we can get our brain, like you were talking about your inner voice, like how critical we can be, because we might've internalized a lot of what our parents told us. There's this quote that I, my friend has on her fridge and I saw it before, but like “How you speak to your child becomes their inner voice.”.
And so I know that I, my mom was super critical too. So I have that in me, but I recently was saying like, I think I want to like, maybe learn the cello. And I used to play the piano, but I really didn't like it. It's funny because I actually wanted to learn how to play the flute. But I think my parents must've thought it was some sort of phallic or something like that.
Let me learn how to play the flute or I'm like, why don't you just let me, I actually want to play an instrument. You want your child to play an instrument? So why can't we just meet in the middle, but it was not going to happen. So let me see if I can, you know, learn how to play the cello. And the nervousness that I had just to call the music shop, just to see, like, do you offer lessons?
How can I get like an instrument? I'm like, I've done hard things. This is not a hard thing, but I was getting flood. And so the person on the other line obviously couldn't see me. And then I'm just like, okay, thank you. And then I just have not bred. I was like, what is wrong? So, but then I had a friend who he's in a band, you know, like a cover band here in San Diego.
And he had a drum set and he was like, why don't you just come over here? And like, I'll just like teach you how to play the drums. It was totally impromptu. And my daughter was standing next to me and I'm like, okay, And I hate learning how to do things in front of other people that I don't know how to do.
Like if I can't do it right. I feel you. So I pay so much on that. Exactly. So I was like, ah, and so he's trying to teach me how to do it. And the second that I got into my head, I could not keep a rhythm, but if I could just get out of my head, I'm like, okay, I can actually do this. And my daughter's like, morally.
That's the thing is that it may, it forces you to get out of your head and to just go with the flow. Cause that's the only thing you can do if you're going to, if you're going to be able to do it. Like, and also the other thing that took me a really long time was I think the same experience you have, which is like, I'm like looking around thinking everybody's judging me for like my inability to do this thing.
Well, you know, so that practice really helped me to shut down those voices and to not worry about what other people were thinking. And weirdly COVID actually really helped with that too, because. You know, all these classes moved online. So like my dance class moved online and suddenly I'm in a room by myself and I can't go the opposite way and run into somebody who's going to the correct way, you know, and things like that.
And so it kind of like allowed me the space to get to a point where I was competent enough, where now I can go and dance with other people and, you know, and I was getting there even in person, but it really helps accelerate that. Oh, that's it. And the other funny thing about dance too, is that hip hop is like, you know, it's like a pretty sexy time, like dance, you know?
And like I was a half Asian person and half Midwestern person. Let us just say that, like finding my sexuality was not like a natural sort of head space. Like it's, you know, like, and I had to like physically be like, all right, Did hip hop for years, it was hilarious. Cause anytime like kind of a sexy move would come along and be like, oh, I can't do that.
I'm like a 48 year old woman with two kids. Like I'm not doing that. Like, you know, and so I kind of half ass it, you know, and like, and uh, but then one day I was like, no, you know what? I need to like embrace that chip. Like I'm going to embrace it. And so of course, the minute I said that the next class I went to was with a teacher that I didn't really, I'd never danced.
Whose specialty I think is like the dancing in heels and he's, you know, he's very flamboyant, it's super sexy. And the first thing that he made us do is it's like twerking sort of like Megan, the stallion kind of like really dirty dancing. And I was like, the universe is full on mocking me right now.
I just made this decision to embrace the like sexy time of hip hop. And now the universe is forcing me to twerk and like lick my thumb with them. Make like a sexy face all at once, like too much, but I did it and it was like, oh my God, I love that you shared that as well, because I think that that's the other thing that we are not encouraged to do is to connect to it.
Like our sexuality sensuality. So I've tried to be like, you know, what, if I want to program my daughter's mind in a different kind of way than I was programmed, or to at least open the door to a different realm of possibility and to acknowledge that having pleasure and feeling good is actually. You know, a good thing.
It's like a birthright. I mean, there are all these studies that like, when you masturbate, like it releases all these endorphins that are so good for relaxation and like all these things. And I was like, okay, well then I need to start embracing that within myself and to like start feeling good and to feel unapologetic about like, you know, receiving a compliment.
It took me forever to allow compliment. Don't say that. Yeah. My friends are literally like, just say they just say, thank you. Don't say like, thank you, but just say thank you. Love it. And so, you know, well, now that we're on the topic of women, how has it been having a woman owned business and, you know, like, are there any challenges or triumphs or things that you've learned along the way that you'd like to share?
I mean, it's the best cause women are bad ass, but that's absolutely true. It's been fantastic. It's been so easy. No drama, like so productive. We love it. Yeah. I mean, we hadn't been, we employed men a while back, uh, you know, and now it's just all women and it's just easy. I don't know what to say. It's just like super, super easy.
It's great. Yeah. We have like, kind of a, it's like a family, like super supportive family, you know, like it's, it's a really great, and I think one of the great places I think of our businesses, we've also been able to offer our employees like a lifestyle. Since women, like we had an employee who had a baby and she wanted to move down to Santa Barbara and be closer to her family and she could do that.
And she could do that because we understand what it's like. And it's the same thing for like our hours where we have very flexible hours. Everybody works from home. Everybody has kids except for one of our employees. And, you know, and the whole point is to allow you, cause I mean, I think it's possible to be a woman and have a family and work, but it means that you have to have a work environment that understands and appreciates what it takes and is willing to be give you the flexibility to.
You know, and so it's a real pleasure to be able to offer that. So, you know, I mean, not that many people, but a few people anyway, you get the benefit of the doubt. And we also paid six months of paid family leave, even though we're a small bit. And that's like something that hopefully will pass in Congress, they're like considering it now a federal paid family leave, which I think would be so amazing.
But I just think, I, you know, I'm hopeful even though COVID has been kind of a shit show for a lot of women and having to deal with this not seriously. I'm also just to hopefully. Given everybody a window into real life and to the fact that we have to balance with our work. And so you just can't shut that all down.
And hopefully, you know, with more, I mean, we were always working from home even before COVID, but hopefully now people will be more understanding and empathetic, especially towards women who are struggling, you know, and men, everyone who's juggling family and young kids in particular or caregiving, you know, hopefully they'll just be a lot more flexibility.
I would love that. I, my friend and I were just talking about recently after we had our children, you know, you have all these ideas before you have children. Someone told me this quote, one time, that's like, you were never a better parent before you had one, because they have all these judgments and ideas.
Why can't you keep that child quiet? Like on the plane when you become a parent? And you're like, oh, I was a terrible friend before, or like, and so I think that it is a struggle to find your identity after you have a child. And at the same time, I had the blessing to be living on island where my husband at the time had his own school.
So I could be at home with my daughter. And that was such a benefit. And I couldn't, it was so hard for me to imagine, like if I had a normal job at a normal company to have to leave. And so I honor everyone, I also realized. Here is huge props to all the single parents out there. Oh my God. Oh my God. It is remarkable.
You know, so, and I'm divorced now. So like I do single parent 50% of the time, but you know, thankfully I have some time to like regroup and find myself, but like you are full on and even just having a friend come visit. Yeah. I was like, oh my God, is that, what would it be like to have another pair of hair?
Somewhere around. Yeah. Like help, but even with another pair of hands, I mean, it's still, I mean, it's exhausting anyway, so I can't even imagine. Yeah, totally. Sabrina Sabrina has three. She has twins and that's remarkable. I think that's, I think she disappeared off the planet, I think. Well, how long did you disappear off the planet when you had twins?
He could not even function for like a year, at least a year. Yeah. Well, as we're wrapping this interview to a close, I wanted to ask, I asked all of my guests this idea of, you know, if you had an opportunity to really challenge this idea of saving face and to just basically like, say, fuck saving space about this thing, what is an idea that you would like, or, you know, potentially a piece of advice or wisdom that you've gained along the way in your own personal journeys that you'd like to share?
I have to say the, the only person's opinion that matters is your own and your own opinion consists of that compassionate voice that you needed to hear as a child. Like that is your true voice. And that's the only opinion that matters. Hmm. That's a good one. And I just think you should embrace life and find joy in everything you do.
If you can. Oh, learn how to roll this data at 48. It's worth it. I love it. And if you want to see joy for anyone who's listening, go to hellolucky[dot]com. I have the website pulled up. It's so cute. Like all of your children's books are so adorable and you can just feel joy emanating from the designs and from the coloring.
And I think that, you know, before we jumped on, one of the things that we had also said was that all of the groups and the organizations and the people who are really advocating to end, you know, racial inequality or the hate crimes that are happening, I fully support. And I think that it's important to really move and, you know, become the bridge and create opportunities just to normalize our lives as like, you know, Hybrid individuals who have like a lot of different cultures under one entity, or just to find the joy in the everyday normal things.
Like, I think that Sabrina, you were saying that you recognize human emotions from all of your traveling. Yeah. At the end of the day, we are all human. I was just listening to an interview with an Asian American journalist who was saying that he did cover a lot of the hate crimes. And he said one of the ways that he really tries to help expand people's consciousness so that everyone can shift and change is to show them as a human being, to show them as a father who is protecting his child, which is why that this happened or so that you can identify and say like, well, I am a parent too.
I would absolutely do that for my child. And just to start having more of that compassion and empathy, I think is really powerful. But yes. Is there anything else that you would like to share to point people to your Instagram account anywhere you want to do?
Yes. I mean, people can follow us on an Instagram at Hello Lucky cards and on Hello Lucky Kids is our kids account, which we're, I personally very active, so feel free to connect with us.
We love hearing from people and engaging in discovering other people who are creative and on this journey, whether they're parents or creators or makers, or just stationary lovers, we love connecting with people.
Thank you. Thank you both so much. Thank you. It was awesome.
Well, that's it. That's today's interview. Thank you so much for listening. I hope that you got some golden nuggets of joy that you can apply into your own life. When I say the word nuggets, it really makes me smile, laugh. I will see you on Friday for our mindfulness practice, and I'm really, really grateful for you taking the time and the energy to listen.
And to hopefully share with someone in your life. And if you have any feedback of other topics that you would love for me to cover, please email hello[@]fcksavingface without the “u” in the word fuck. And in the future, we'll have episodes about ketamine as a mental health treatment approach, being a third culture kid, and how that potentially informs a different appreciation for our heritage.
And I will be challenged by an interview e about how to really honor the culture that I came from instead of focusing on, you know, perhaps the things that were the most challenging. So I'm excited for these different types of conversations to broaden all of our perspectives and to really bridge the gap between what we think we know and what we don't and then have conscious conversations around that.
Thank you for joining me.
Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. If you liked what you heard and know someone in your life who might also benefit from hearing this episode, please feel free to share it with them. Also, if you'd like to support our show, you can make a one-time donation fcksavingface.com. Or, you can make a recurring donation at patreon.com/fcksavingface. That's “fck” without the “u.” Subscribe today to stay tuned for all future episodes.
