EP 105: Trailblazers and Triumphs: Asian American Success Stories That Will Inspire You with Jerry Won
Jerry Won is a renowned keynote speaker and creative entrepreneur who speaks on Leadership, Creator Economy, and Storytelling. He is the Founder & CEO of Just Like Media, an Asian American storytelling company home to the award winning Dear Asian Americans Podcast, whose guests include Vice President Kamala Harris. He is also Founder & CEO of Always Be Creating and Asian Creator House, the premier community and events platform for Asian content creators. Business Insider recently named Jerry one of the Top 23 Creator Economy Experts to Follow.
His speaking and brand partners include The White House, SXSW, Harvard Business School, Dartmouth Tuck, Google, Pepsi, Meta, Toyota, McDonald’s, and more. He also regularly works with Asian American community organizations such as National Association of Asian American Professionals, Asian American Journalist Association, ACE NextGen, and the Network of Korean American Leaders.
Jerry earned his B.S. in Business Administration from the University of Southern California Marshall School of Business and an MBA from the University of Michigan Ross School of Business, where he served as President of the Student Government Association. He lives in Southern California with his wife Kyunghwa and children.
Embracing the Journey: A Conversation with Jerry Won
As a podcaster, I have the privilege of engaging in enlightening conversations with a variety of individuals. This week, I introduce Jerry Won, a renowned keynote speaker, creative entrepreneur, and a strong advocate for representation. Jerry is the founder and CEO of Just Like Media, an Asian storytelling company, which includes the award-winning Dear Asian Americans podcast. He’s also the founder of World Class Speakers and the upcoming Asian Speaker Conference. His work has been recognized by notable organizations such as South by Southwest, Harvard Business School, Google, Pepsi, and more.
The Journey of Personal Growth
In our conversation, I was particularly drawn to Jerry's response to the question of what he would say "f*ck saving face" to. His answer resonated with me as I’m also on a journey of personal growth and maturity. I talk about an experience I had volunteering at a retirement home with my daughter's Girl Scouts troop, which reminded me of the importance of life and purpose.
Jerry Won: A Story of Resilience
Jerry's journey is a testament to resilience. He found his place in the corporate world, only to be fired from his job in 2019. This led him to question whether he should continue pursuing traditional jobs that may not align with his values or seek something different. He acknowledged that the system he was trying to fit into was not built for people like him to thrive in. His transition into content creation was not a glamorous story of following his passion, but rather a period of uncertainty and figuring out his next steps.
The COVID-19 pandemic further impacted Jerry's journey, forcing him to reprioritize and pivot. The temporary relief provided by student loan pauses, daycare closures, and extended unemployment benefits gave him the unique opportunity to pursue content creation, which initially started as a hobby or project.
The Challenges of Marginalized Groups
Jerry and I discussed the challenges faced by marginalized groups, particularly in the context of social media. We talked about the perpetuation of privileges, such as gender and race, and how they affect the visibility and credibility of certain individuals' opinions. We agreed that both external factors and internalized self-doubt contribute to the lack of representation and participation of marginalized voices on platforms like LinkedIn.
Leaving a Legacy
Our conversation touched upon the importance of not worrying about what others think and the concept of leaving a legacy. The fear of other people's opinions is particularly prevalent in our Asian community, where there is a strong association between livelihood, job, and marriage with shame and saving face.
We discussed the idea of privilege and how it has allowed us to make choices for ourselves and our children while still honoring and respecting our parents' journey. We recognized the sacrifices our parents made and the challenges they faced, which were even greater due to limited accessibility and opportunities. Telling our own stories is a way to honor our parents' sacrifices and hard work.
The Asian American Male Experience
We talk about the experiences of Asian American men, particularly in Western culture. We discuss the existence of toxic masculinity in the Asian community, although it may not manifest in the same aggressive and macho way as in American culture. There’s a reliance on traditional gender roles and the pressure to be the primary earner or keeper of the household. We also noted the fear of taking risks and trying something new, which stems from a playbook that emphasizes taking care of the family and avoiding mistakes.
It’s vitally important to share more success stories of Asian American men to challenge the limited narratives in American media.
The Impact of Cultural Narratives
Jerry discusses the impact of cultural narratives on Asian Americans, particularly in relation to perceptions of affirmative action. He suggested that Asian American men may be more inclined to believe in a pure meritocracy compared to Asian American women. He referenced a study by the Pew Research Group on Asian Americans' perceptions of affirmative action, indicating that the data might reveal this gender divide.
Jerry also highlighted the need to challenge the definition of "best" and questioned whether everyone has had equal opportunities and privileges to succeed. He mentioned the strikingly depressing data on the racial makeup of Asian Americans in corporate America, where the bottom does not reflect the top. He acknowledged that he himself left the system, realizing its flaws.
The Power of Storytelling
Jerry emphasizes the importance of sharing stories and encourages others to do the same. He shared his family's history of struggle and sacrifice, from being born into Japanese-occupied Korea to immigrating to America. He believes that it’s disrespectful to be afraid of sharing one's story due to concerns about what others might think.
He urges people to carry on the legacy of their ancestors and make a difference in their communities. The privilege we have today is because of our grandparents' sacrifices and he encourages everyone to find their own way to contribute.
Supporting and Investing in the Community
Jerry believes that economic empowerment is a powerful tool for building power and safety within the community. He encourages listeners to think about where their money ends up and how it can make a difference in the community. He urges listeners to be intentional about how they circulate their money and make decisions that support local businesses.
To continue following Jerry's journey, you can subscribe to his newsletter at Jerry Won or connect with him on LinkedIn or Instagram. He also encourages listeners to support and follow three other individuals who are earlier in their journeys, as their support means a lot more to them.
In conclusion, I’d like to thank you for tuning in and encourage you to check out previous episodes and leave a review on iTunes! If you’re an entrepreneur who wants to be featured on the podcast, share your story with me below:
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Episode Highlights:
Volunteering at a Retirement Home (00:01:29): Judy shares the heartwarming tale of her time volunteering at a retirement home, sprinkled with moments spent alongside her daughter. She dives into reflections on the bigger picture of life and the joy of making a meaningful impact.
Empowering Women of Color (00:02:35): Join Judy in a passionate discussion about her mission to help women of color discover opportunities that pave the way for a brighter future, not just for themselves but for their children too.
Impact and Income Intersection (00:05:43): Jerry Won takes us on a journey, focusing on the sweet spot where positive impact and income intersect, especially within the vibrant Asian American community.
Crossroads of Unemployment (00:09:38): Jerry opens up about a pivotal moment in his life – being let go from a job he was eager to embrace. He shares the challenges of aligning personal values with professional pursuits.
Navigating Transition (00:10:42): Join Jerry in a candid conversation about the hurdles he faced post-unemployment – from collecting unemployment checks to job interviews – all while grappling with the unforeseen impact of COVID-19 on his plans.
Power of Sharing Our Stories (00:12:32): In a heartfelt moment, Jerry underscores the significance of women and people of color sharing their stories. He emphasizes the need for community-wide conversations, creating a platform for everyone to voice and share their experiences.
Legacy and Importance of Others' Opinions (00:19:29): Explore the liberating idea that, in the grand scheme, others' opinions don't hold much weight. Discover the importance of focusing on oneself and nurturing immediate relationships.
Insignificance of Individual Existence (00:21:49): Dive into the contemplation that in a world with billions of humans, individual existence may seem insignificant. Unpack the notion that only those who've done terrible things are remembered.
Toxic Masculinity in Asian American Culture (00:23:54): Join the conversation on toxic masculinity in Asian American communities. Explore the impact of traditional gender roles and the fear that holds individuals back from trying new things.
Asian Americans and Affirmative Action (00:29:51): Jerry and Judy share insights into how Asian American men and women perceive affirmative action. Delve into the influence of cultural narratives on their beliefs.
Opportunities in Corporate America (00:31:00): Uncover the disparities in opportunities for Asian Americans in corporate America. Jerry sheds light on statistics and reasons behind the existing gaps.
Challenges for Asian Americans (00:32:11): Explore the unique challenges faced by Asian Americans, from caregiving responsibilities to family expectations, and how these impact their professional focus.
Finding His Voice (00:39:00): Jerry reflects on the journey of discovering his own voice and the fears that accompany self-expression in the workplace.
Celebrating at the White House (00:40:07): Share in Jerry's excitement as he recounts his experience being invited to the White House for Asian American Heritage Month, basking in the pride of his accomplishments.
Recognized by the Vice President (00:41:08): Join Jerry as he shares the surreal moment of being invited to the Vice President's residence and later to DC for a forum, highlighting the impactful nature of his work.
Importance of Community Support (00:49:56): Delve into the conversation about investing in the community and supporting local businesses for economic empowerment and safety.
Changing Money Circulation (00:51:25): Advocacy for keeping money within the community takes center stage, emphasizing the power and safety it can bring to individuals and vulnerable groups.
Supporting Emerging Voices (00:53:47): A call to action to support those early in their journeys, promoting their work alongside personal growth.
Links Mentioned:
Dear Asian Americans podcast
Judy Tsuei LinkedIn
Judy Tsuei Instagram
There may be affiliate links included in this blog post.
Transcript:
Judy Tsuei (00:00:02) - Welcome to the Saving Face podcast, where we're empowering mental and emotional health for Asian Americans and voices of color by breaking through taboo topics. Life may not always be pretty, but it is indeed beautiful. Make your story beautiful today. This week's episode features an interview with Jerry Wan. He's a renowned keynote speaker and a creative entrepreneur who talks about leadership, storytelling, and the Asian American experience. He's the founder and CEO of Just Like Media, which is an Asian storytelling company home to the award winning Dear Asian Americans podcast, which I definitely scrolled and research when I was starting to come up with the idea for my own podcast. And his guests have included Vice President Kamala Harris. He's also the founder of world class speakers speaking and coaching events business and host of the upcoming Asian Speaker Conference. So he's done a lot of work with South by Southwest, Harvard Business School, Google, Pepsi, meta, and a lot more. And he's a huge advocate of representation. I especially loved I ask every guest at the end of the podcast episode if you could say fuck saving face to one thing, what would it be? And his response has been something that has been resonant with my own journey as I'm moving, you know, becoming more mature, I guess even at 45, just growing older and wiser.
Judy Tsuei (00:01:29) - And through my NLP coaching experience, shifting my relationship with my parents, seeing them differently. Today, my daughter and I actually went with her Girl Scouts troop to go volunteer at a retirement home, and this is something that they do not see. These girls got together and they were singing The Locomotion, which happened to be something that they had sung at their grandparents day in elementary school, and so they expected to sing it one time for a room full of people at this retirement home instead, because they were having a staffing meeting and all these other things, they ended up going room to room and seeing the clients in their rooms. And some of most of them were in hospital beds in different levels of aging. And so all of that gave me an experience of just being reminded about life, our purpose in it, the end of life. Part of the reason that all of this is also coming into play and really focusing on the impact that I want to make, that I'm helping my clients make and truly living my purpose.
Judy Tsuei (00:02:35) - It's funny because my partner was just saying that I'm on a little bit of a spending spree, and it's somewhat true because I want to live my life and enjoy it while also saving for bigger goals like buying a house in Hawaii. But the whole point is, recently I found out that a friend and a former client passed away and she was younger than I am. She has two young girls and it was just so sad to me because she, the entire time I've ever known her, has absolutely been such a huge light in the world, and I think that she would want everybody who's known her to continue to shine that light forward. So to that end, I hope that when you listen to this episode, it gives you a lens through which to see different opportunities that are arising. I'm currently working with a client who's passionate about helping other women of color identify opportunities they may not have known could present a whole different life path for themselves and their children. She's super passionate about making sure children are protected, that they're not abused, and so empowering the moms is one way to do it.
Judy Tsuei (00:03:47) - And because her business is built on what her father had created, he created a plumbing business. It wasn't something that she was necessarily passionate about, but she transitioned from being a teacher into being an entrepreneur because she recognized there was this opportunity right in front of her. And since taking her dad's business over with 200 bucks in the bank account, she's built it into an almost seven figure business and has is continuing to grow it. So she wants to help other women of color also identify opportunities that are all around us that we see it all the time. I went for a walk the other day with one of my talking to one of my team members on the phone, and just sharing how I pivot with things that are unexpected, that happen in our lives that we could easily get down about. But seeing where the wisdom is, where the gift is, where we can continue to draw and grow. So I hope that that's what you get out of this interview with Gerri today and that you follow him on LinkedIn.
Judy Tsuei (00:04:46) - He's continually active within the community and really representing Asian American voices everywhere. I'm super excited to have Jerry Wong here today. I tried to shorten the pronunciation, the last name we kind of just got talking about that. My last name has multiple vowels in a row, so everybody's always like to tsui to sway, you know? But I wanted to have you on today because you've done a lot of remarkable things. So you've interviewed Kamala Harris, you've become a speaker and transitioned your career. You've built a podcast platform. And before we got on, we were also kind of talking about the Asian American male experience. I was mentioning how so many men reach out to me to say, thank you so much for sharing this information, which I'm always surprised about because I always think I'm talking to women. I'm really excited to have Jerry today here, but before we get into all of that, I would love for you to share about your story a bit about your career and how you got here.
Jerry Won (00:05:42) - Yeah. Thanks, Judy.
Jerry Won (00:05:43) - Really, really glad to be here. And shout out to all the all the men listening especially, you know, I think where I sit now and where it is easier to explain what I do to people is I try to help people, particularly from our community, find themselves at the intersection of impact and income. And impact, for me, is through our stories. Impact, to me is the positive uplifting of our community through storytelling like this. Because we didn't have the playbook, our parents didn't know the playbook. They did what they could so that we could have these conversations. I mean, even what we're going to talk about today, it's all privilege, and it's beyond the scope of possibility or even probability for our parents and then income. The reason I focus on that is we have been taught again by our parents who wanted the best for us, but they were just very limited in their both knowledge and ability to understand the American ecosystem. And so things like I make money as a speaker and a coach, that's not a thing in our culture.
Jerry Won (00:06:46) - You mentioned, you know, Vice President Kamala Harris and some of the other white House things like. It took some of those things for my family, my dad in particular, to understand and to appreciate what I was doing. And so what I do now has evolved into speaking as a career, teaching other people how to speak, or working on some other businesses within the world of speaking to develop events and ecosystem for more of us to stand on stages and to command stages so that we can deliver impact and to also generate income along the way. It's taken a winding path of content creation of of podcasting, obviously through the lens of Covid and all the other stuff that we have been through. But no, I am really glad, you know, to to share with you this time, because I think the other thing is there can be this sort of this scarcity mindset of, well, why are you starting that Asian podcast? Or, you know, when there's this other person? And let me tell you, we never ask white people about that stuff.
Jerry Won (00:07:46) - Yeah, right. If you go to the bookstore today and you go to the business leadership section, there's going to be about 80% of the books that are going to be written by white men. Yep. And there's not much variance in what's actually in the books. And right now, somewhere in America, some dude is sitting down to write his own unique leadership book, which I will guarantee you is a regurgitation of somebody else's thing. And nobody's telling that guy, hey, there's 50 other 500 other authors. Why are you? And sometimes I think we limit that for ourselves. And so part of what I'm trying to do, and I'm one of many people in our community and space, is to empower people to really get people to believe that their unique story matters and that they need to tell their story, because it's actually an act of service to get that story out there. And in the process, you can take care of your family and do all the things that your parents want for you without having to prescribe or follow this prescribed path.
Jerry Won (00:08:43) - And so anyway, that is a very long way of introducing myself. But you know. So anyway, yeah, we'll start from there.
Judy Tsuei (00:08:49) - Yeah. That's perfect. So because I've been following you on LinkedIn and you've been sharing these remarkable posts, and one of them was about how you transitioned into what you're doing now when you had this corporate career and it took a pivot. I wanted to ask you about that. In addition to the other thing that I've been noticing on LinkedIn is similar to what you just said about all of these business leader books, and they're all written by dudes who look pretty homogenous. I'm also finding that on the LinkedIn space as well, that it's a bunch of dudes like who are. And I'm actively trying to seek other voices. And so you're one of the voices that I've been able to find, but I find that, you know, other people have called it like bro culture on LinkedIn or like, you know, that kind of thing. And so I'd love for you to weigh in on both of those, your career pivot and then this expertise that you've had being on the platform.
Jerry Won (00:09:38) - Yeah, I'm only here because I got fired. So I graduated college to ten years in sales and marketing and in a variety of B2C fields. I went to business school, came out as a consultant as you're supposed to. A lot of shoulds in our lives, right? Particularly in the beginning stages went to we work, went to another place and got fired on week seven of a job that I was highly and aggressively recruited into. And so that was August of 2019 and found myself at a crossroads because I had to ask myself, do I want to go get another job where I will likely be unhappy because not because of me, but because of the priorities of the establishment? And money aside, can I find a place whose values align to mine? And it took me a long time, 15 years between working and going to grad school to finally. Believe the theory that maybe it wasn't meant to be, that I wasn't supposed to be fitting into a system that I can now more confidently say that was never really built for people like me to thrive in.
Jerry Won (00:10:42) - And so that was a transition, you know, I think on certain stages or people like to paint this like glamorized story of like he found his passion and said, screw you, a corporate America. And I was like, no, I was like, fit, I was fired, I was collecting unemployment checks. I was trying to figure out my next steps. I was still interviewing for jobs because money is important. We had two kids at the time, at the end of the six month period that I had told myself, and my wife agreed to sort of give this a go. At the end of it was Covid. And so we had to reprioritize and re pivot. You know, certain wonderful things happened for our very immediate financial situation, which was that student loans pause and that daycare closed and unemployment extended and expanded. And so it gave us a unique opportunity to pursue this, which at the time wasn't really a business, it was a hobby or a project or something. Now, on the LinkedIn front, I think it's really fascinating that you say that because I think it is both a perpetuation of the privileges that certain groups of people have and continue to exercise, starting with.
Jerry Won (00:11:41) - I'm just going to say what I think because I think my stuff is important. I mean, thinking about, you know, I think there's two things, particularly gender and race. Right? So men in particular, you know, mansplaining is a word because it's reality. And then if you put, at least in America, the privilege that white men have of having always feeling like their opinion should matter, when in most cases it doesn't. I mean, look at the comment section of some of these things, right? It's just yeah, I think I get it and I think I know I get it less because I'm a dude. And there's also this sort of I don't know what it is, but I get it less. I talk to you. I've heard from you and I talked to a lot of other, you know, female friends who actively post, and it's unfortunate the other part, and it's not to blame, but it is to just objectively assess and therefore we can come to a solution is part of it.
Jerry Won (00:12:32) - We do it to ourselves, right? And so we have not had the proper guidance, coaching and encouragement or empowerment for us to believe that we should post and we should share our thoughts. It is, why would I do that? Or, you know, let me just keep my head down because me posting about my opinions, God forbid, is making myself more visible and I don't want to. I am scared to be wrong in what I share. I've been told to keep quiet that my work will showcase itself or my work alone will, you know, lead me to rewards and all this other stuff. And so, you know, again, part of it, I think, is a community wide conversations that we need to have that our story actually matters because and here's sort of how I distilled it. I think when our parents and our generalize here, you know, came to this country, whether by choice or not, coming into a cultural system and an academic and a professional system that they did not understand, they went back to, which is very natural for human beings to do to a place of familiarity and comfort.
Jerry Won (00:13:43) - So they told us the playbook to success was what worked back home. And so what works back home is study your ass off. What are extracurricular activities like? That's not what colleges in Asia care about. Go get a professional degree, because that is the quickest and the actual, most surefire way for you to elevate your status, respect and society, income and everything else that sort of works in America. But then it doesn't. And so I don't think we've had, again, at our parents level, the right education and the conversations, because if you're under the age of 25 or 30, even like our parents didn't have WeChat, KakaoTalk, Google, none of that shit. Like they figured it out and while I am so proud of them having figured it out, a lot of the tribal knowledge was terrible because it was from the community, it was from church, it was from temple, it was from really not credible and baloney sources. But again, they're just trying to survive. And so if you're new to this country and the only other Korean, Chinese, Taiwanese person in your neighborhood says, hey, my kid, this, this, blah, blah, blah, you're going to be like, oh, maybe that's just the way it is, and there was no way to check it, right? And so I think, you know, I always say that every generation's favorite pastime is to shit on their parents, and that's regardless of race.
Jerry Won (00:15:14) - However, I think people forget, young people forget, and they need to really sit and think of the circumstances and the world that their parents grew up in, both culturally, generationally and technologically, to give them a whole lot of. Race and to just eat a giant bowl of gratitude because they did this so that we can have, you know, our parents didn't. What is mental health? They're just literally trying to survive. And so, you know, if I don't care if you're young or old, be nicer to your parents and understand that because it all bleeds into how we come out on social media. And because we've also, again, I'm going to generalize here, we have also put. Doctors and lawyers and investment bankers and startup founders on this pedestal of this is what success means. We have a lot. So when we when people step out onto their own, whether to be an entrepreneur or a content creator. Their immediate circles aren't as encouraging. And I'm talking I'm not talking about parents.
Jerry Won (00:16:19) - Your friends are going to poop on you because, you know, it's like you went to business school for that, or, you know, and so or aren't you wasting, you know, because. Says who? Right. And so again, I am not trying to be a hero or a savior. I'm doing this genuinely to take care of my family. And I found a way to make money doing what I do. And in the process, the byproduct has been meeting people like you, encouraging other people, empowering other people. I mean, sometimes the DMs that I get of like, hey, you helped me see this and all these, you know, start that or another. It is incredible and it's very humbling. But the more of us. Speak. The more of us that post, the more of us that share. It normalizes this. It also. Makes it okay and it creates this culture of safety. Now, if you look at every, you know, top whatever list of.
Jerry Won (00:17:17) - Thought leaders or whatever. It's not diverse, and there's a whole lot of institutionalized problems there, too, starting with who's the judge panel? Do they care? You know. It's not complicated. It's just please share your stories. It's more it's not about you, actually. And so get get over yourselves. One I want to say this. And both of these are true. Everybody will care and nobody cares. Meaning nobody cares because we're so focused on our own selves. Yeah, nobody will genuinely go out of their way to poop on you. And if they do cut him out of their lives, nobody really cares about you. Which should be empowering, actually, to say that if nobody really cares, then that should empower me to do what I want because their opinions don't matter. And the other side that I think everybody will care or everybody could care, is that if you say the things that are true in your heart, there's no way that nobody else resonates with that. And how I know this is that we get comments, we get likes, we also get DM's.
Jerry Won (00:18:18) - My big starting content was four years ago when I did 100 consecutive days of video content on LinkedIn, the topic that meant the most to me and got the most sort of silent engagement was a post about paternity leave. And I got men, dads, friends in the DM saying thanks for posting that. And it was really sad because they did not want to publicly engage with the comment about Pat leaf. Did not even want to like the goddamn post, because that would send a self overanalyze signal to their boss or whatever. But dude, take your pet, leave nobody. Your company does not give two shits about you or your kids. Take the time for you and your partner and for your kids. And so there's power in that. And so you actually won't know how much your words can change the world unless you actually put it out there. And you should put it out there because nobody cares.
Judy Tsuei (00:19:14) - It's a good reminder. And it's while you're saying this, I've been reading this book called The Slight Edge, and I've gotten to this part of the book where he basically says that he had seen the statistic of how many people actually show up at a funeral and like, why they show up and the number is so small.
Judy Tsuei (00:19:29) - So you've lived an entire life and the number of people who are there, and then the number of people who won't go from like one part of the funeral to the next is dependent upon whether and he's like, once he read that the author of the book, he was just like, what the fuck am I doing? Like, why am I so worried about what people think? If at the end of my life this is what it is like? No.
Jerry Won (00:19:48) - So no after that, because here, because the other thing that other people legacy has been sort of a buzzword about like, I want to leave a legacy in this world. I'm going to ask all your listeners who just. This is a pop quiz. Name me all eight of your great grandparents. Yep. Zero. Yeah. Zero. Yeah, not because in Asian culture we don't share names. We just say like third uncle, fourth uncle, none of that. That's why. Ask your white friends to name their eight great grandparents. Yep.
Jerry Won (00:20:17) - So you're not going to matter to your great grandkids. What noble thing are you going to do? Right? You know, like so. Who cares? Just focus on you and your next immediate thing you know to do right by them, and then let them pass the baton. And so, like, you're right, like nobody cares. Nobody. And it's it's sad, but people live in fear of other people's opinions so much. And it is worse in our community, right. Because we equate our livelihood or job or who we marry all this other shit with shame and with, you know, stuff like, like literally, you know, saving face, right? You know, people lie about their jobs. People lie about everything. Why? Just to save face. And again, while it's nice to say fuck it, it's also important to understand where that comes from so that we can understand what the actual drive is. Right? And so it may not be important for us, but we have to be respectful of the culture and the ecosystem that our parents want to exist in as an example, so that they're not being gaslit and they're not being tormented either.
Jerry Won (00:21:27) - And so but yeah, I mean, it's it's not morbid, but people don't care. So just be you.
Judy Tsuei (00:21:33) - The what you were saying about the grandparents, I had actually heard in a podcast, it was too, like you couldn't even name two back maybe like and so and they were saying someone as big as Steve Jobs, like in a couple of generations, it will like in the big universal expansion of things, it's not going to matter as much as you think that it does.
Jerry Won (00:21:49) - And there's been 100 billion human beings alive on this planet. You don't matter. Yeah.
Judy Tsuei (00:21:54) - That's a really that's a great stat.
Jerry Won (00:21:56) - And yeah. So the only people that we actually remember, the people who've done like really, really terrible things in the universe. Yeah. Yes. Those are the people that we study.
Judy Tsuei (00:22:04) - Yeah. And you know what you were saying about privilege and about honoring your family and being nicer to your parents? I'm in my mid-forties now, and this is the first time in my life I'm able to both understand how much privilege I have to be able to make the choices that I do for myself and my daughter, in addition to honoring and respecting their journey.
Judy Tsuei (00:22:24) - Like thinking about it. I've lived in China and I lived in Taiwan, and I think about when I lived there and what my experience was like and how challenging it was for me. And I knew I was going to come back to the States where I grew up. But for them, that was like generation a generation before, with even less accessibility and like less opportunity and how they had to make it. And so I think what you're saying is a really remarkable way of reminding us we all have a story to tell, and in telling our stories, it honors their sacrifices and everything that they worked hard to do to get us to here. And, you know, my parents have adapted a lot. They've changed a lot. But for them to do it without the mental health support that I've had, without the physical health support that I had or like, the ability and the freedom to share is completely different. I would love to ask you about what you've been able to do. You know, speaking on stages, what you've kind of observed as building all of these different podcasts that you have, and then kind of diving into your experience as an Asian American male.
Jerry Won (00:23:29) - In what specific lens?
Judy Tsuei (00:23:32) - Well, I think that, like you were saying, how many people were silently engaging with you on these topics that are important, but even more so, I think just men in general, in Western culture, have been taught to be a certain way, you know? And then on top of that, add the layer of being Asian. And how has that experience been?
Jerry Won (00:23:54) - I think we also have a toxic masculinity problem in the Asian culture. It's just often underplayed, in my opinion, because it doesn't manifest in the very loud, aggressive, macho bravado that we have assessed American toxic masculinity. Right? So we don't have lifted trucks. We don't, you know, the stereotype of the, you know, jacked, gun toting, angry, you know, white guy with the lifted F-150, like. We have our own version of how toxic masculinity manifests within our own communities. It doesn't look like that. And so I think in the Asian American culture, sometimes we get a pass.
Jerry Won (00:24:43) - Unfortunately for not being that, however, how does it manifest? It is the reliance, in my opinion, on traditional gender roles when it benefits the man. It manifests in. The expectation that we sometimes have put on ourselves and or our parents and or even partners have put on ourselves as the primary earner or the keeper of the household. And I think there are certain expectations of or certain things that in my opinion, especially from the professional perspective of people say, hey, this is what, you know, the gender stereotype roles are pretty prevalent still. And so, you know, so I think we're dealing with that and just a generational change of, for example, that's caring more, that's showing up more, doing more. You know, whatever the I saw, you know, some old survey like in 1980, something only like 30% of dads had ever changed the diaper. And now it's like 97. And I'm like, that was wrong with the other 3%. Like, what are you and who's marrying these dudes? But it needs to from the professional lens, because I think that's what sort of, you know, would be of most interest is I think.
Jerry Won (00:26:03) - It stems from the fear of being wrong. I think it stems from the fear of trying something new, because we have been given a version of a playbook that says you have to take care of your family. And so we generally feel free to send me emails if you disagree with this part, I would love to talk about it. It's the fear of taking a risk that potentially could have higher returns in terms of both economic culture and time freedom. Because I will tell you, I am a lot more free today than when I was in my corporate roles, because risk aversion is a close cousin of both scarcity and survival mindset. Don't get fired. Don't lose your job. Don't mess it up. It's further exacerbated, in my opinion, because we have continued immigration and continued proximity to our home cultures here, even though you have been here for generations, because we exist in communities where we haven't. Japanese Americans might be the only ones or Chinese Americans to a certain degree, but there's still a flow of Chinese immigrants, whether through academia or whatever.
Jerry Won (00:27:25) - Japanese are the only ones, I think that came here, and obviously because of a really shitty part of American passed, it stopped. People didn't want to come here. And so they've evolved. But using my Korean community as an example, I'm pretty still connected to my community and still having the cultural influences. Also, thank you, entertainment for making sure that that stays through. So there is that and I think there's just sort of looking at certain success stories in this is why I think people should share more of their stories. There are so few stories in American media today that really shares the how Asian American men got successful or defined success, that they only look at it from the outside and saying that is the only way. Right. And so I'll give you a good example. So let's say you're in law and you're in a big law firm, and there's just a handful of Asian American partners. But you're like, I want to be that guy. Because to me that is, you know, you know, is there an Asian Harvey Specter I don't know.
Jerry Won (00:28:32) - However, you have to really, really be honest with yourself. And this is not to diminish the accomplishments of that person who is there. But will that person who endured likely decades of racism, who is now finally feel like they belong to this old white guys club with the privileges that come with? Are they going to be honest with you about how now the other people should do it? Or is there a chance that they have either internalized it or it behooves them to say a narrative that says, hey, man, race had nothing to do with how I got here. I was a good lawyer. I put my work in and I got promoted because of me, because to say otherwise would be to put a target or to call out the very entity that they are a part of. Right. And so I may be wrong on this. I don't think I am, but it is really hard for people who have endured. And so it's sort of this like because versus despite. Right. And so it's I want to say that when people celebrate people like us and saying like, oh, you know, Judy rose to these ranks despite the fact that she was a, you know, immigrant woman.
Jerry Won (00:29:51) - And it's like, you know, let me tweak one word there and saying, like, it's because she was an immigrant woman that she knew how to deal with your shit and that, you know, we learned how to pivot and to think in different things and we're scrappy, whatever it is. Right. And so I think a lot of those narratives, unfortunately, bleed into more of the the guys in our community. And so I don't know the data, but Pew Research Group recently did a really fantastic study on Asian Americans perceptions of affirmative action, and I would. Guess that if you gender divided the respondent that men, Asian men in America believe more of a pure meritocracy than women. Because I think many of us still. And look, I'm not. I want to live in a world that's merit based. I actually do. And so all the work that we're doing is to actually help us get to a point where the best win. But today in 2023, the best does not win because one, we have to define we have to challenge the definition of best.
Jerry Won (00:31:00) - And two, we have to also honestly ask ourselves. Did we have the equal opportunity to be best? That we have the same opportunities, the same starting points, the same privileges. And so because if you follow every other statistic that comes out of McKinsey or Pew or any other research about mobility of Asian Americans in corporate America, the data is strikingly depressing. Yeah. That the people, the the racial makeup at the bottom does not reflect the racial makeup at the top. And we've been here long enough for that not to be a time based excuse. Something happens in the middle. Whether so, it's two things people get. People don't get promoted and or people leave the system. So I'm a statistic because I left the system and there's no way that I was you know, I wasn't begging to be partner or whatever. I left because I realized the system sucks. And so even if we account for that, though, if we take all the people who desperately want to get to the top, is it a fair thing? Does everybody get the same opportunities? And again, it's even more complicated because again, to generalize, we have different priorities.
Jerry Won (00:32:11) - Yeah. So if you know how we care for our parents, how we care for our responsibilities, either home here or home back in Asia, many of us are expected to take over our family, small businesses or all these different things. And so we don't have the privilege to just focus on work as many other people do.
Judy Tsuei (00:32:30) - Yeah. I mean, I hadn't thought about well, I did think about the whole reason this podcast got started was because I thought once I grew up, that tiger parenting stopped. And then I realized when I was talking to my partner who worked in a predominantly Asian American school district at the time, he's like, what are you talking about? This is exactly the issue that I see from the students who are coming into my office all of the time, and it was because of that continual influx of immigration and immigrants. And so the ever present impact that that cultural nuance has on our lives and why that continues to influence how we show up. Sure. So fascinating. Can you tell me about the podcasts that you have created and are bringing out into the world, and how you got, like, the trajectory of your speaking career to the point that you're interviewing vice presidents and like, you know, being on different panels like that.
Jerry Won (00:33:23) - The VP stuff is bonkers. It's bonkers. And so I shared earlier, I started doing 100 days of video content on LinkedIn at the end of 2019. We're in the 100 day window. And so if you want to change your life next year, start today. And then I had a podcast that everybody has forgotten by now. It was sort of this, like overly engineered idea that I had, where I believe the notion that one day could change your life. We just had to reframe what one day meant. And so I took 24 hours and divided it by 365. And so every day we had a podcast episode that was like three minutes in 18 seconds. Wow. Really hard to do. Yeah, dailies are hard, but also production is hard. And then I realized that in my desperate attempt to fill the guest spots, I had some people on the show whose values I did not want to like. Yeah. So I realized, especially after Covid, I was like, Holy shit, I had an anti-vaxxer on my show, and I was like, ah, you know, I don't I don't want that.
Jerry Won (00:34:21) - Right. And so I've always had this idea that I wanted to start an Asian American talk show or an interview based show, because we don't know what we don't know. And I didn't know that this is what I would have loved to have had when I was in college. Right. And so the spark, actually, I owe to a man named Brian Lee. The theme of everything that we've talked about, Brian Lee is one of the most successful Asian American businesspeople in America, and nobody knows who the hell he is. If cofounded Legalzoom, he co-founded the Honest Company, he co-founded Shoe Dazzle, and now he runs a very, very successful venture company called Bam ventures. He has not done a very good job of celebrating his success because he's let other people in. The latter two white woman take front stage, but he was the genius in the business behind those two businesses anyway, so he was on a podcast series called Rising Grind, which was hosted by John Damon. Young people know him for Shark Tank or people know him for Fubu.
Jerry Won (00:35:16) - We are in the Fubu generation. And so Daymond John had this podcast and it was sort of this, you know, podcast, a book strategy. And so I was listening to the Brian Lee episode on Damon's podcast. And Brian grew up here in LA in the 70s, children of Korean immigrants and small business owners. And and so the question was asked a very generic question. You know, what about the fact that you grew up under immigrant parents, helped you become successful today? And Brian said, hey, you know, when you grow up as a child of Korean immigrants in the 70s and seeing what they go through, you have no choice but to want to be successful for them. And I was like, fuck, that's it. That's something that nobody else understands because we've had to translate for our parents. We've had to defend our parents. We've had to be the adults so early because they were so busy trying to help us survive in this foreign land. Biggest problem was that Damon did not know how to carry that question forward.
Jerry Won (00:36:12) - Or it was edited out, I don't know. So like pause, completely different pivot. And I remember being in the car and I said, that's it. That's the question. That's I want to spend an hour asking people about that. And so that and then the practical side was I was nearing the end of my sort of six month trial into being by myself, which meant the severance money was going to run out in six months. So I had to figure my stuff out. And so and if you worked in corporate America, intellectual property and stuff is very tricky. And so I wanted to have started something that I could call my own before I started at New Company. And so I set myself a deadline. March 2nd is my daughter's birthday. She was going to turn 1 in 2020, and I said, I'm going to launch this show dedicated to her on March 2nd. And I happen to know a whole lot of cool people in the community, and let's just do it right. And so and podcast has like zero barrier entry.
Jerry Won (00:37:06) - And so we recorded five episodes. We launched the March 2nd. Two weeks later, the country shut down and so everybody was home without an excuse to say they were too busy to record a podcast. And so also I had nothing else to do because the world shut down, my kids were home, I had to do something. And so that went on overdrive. We did 50 episodes in the first 100 days. There were days I would release an episode a day. There were some days I would release two episodes a day because our shelf was so backed up and people were like, I want to tell my story. I want to tell my story. We ended up doing 100 episodes in the first year, which is insane and nobody should ever do unless you're doing daily short podcast, which is fine. Every episode was about an hour and so but what that allowed me to do, because at the time I knew that it would turn into a business. I just didn't know how or foresee what it would become.
Jerry Won (00:37:55) - I had become, de facto, something that the community needed, because 2020 was the beginnings and the rumblings of anti-China sentiment as it relates to Covid. The you know, obviously, the the murders of black folks impact us. And it was just a really, you know, tough time. But I realized that these stories meant so much more to other people than it did for many of us. And so, March 2nd, 2021 I celebrate my 100th episode and I'm like, you know, it's it's been a while. I'm kind of tired. This is also not making any money. My year one complete sponsorship revenue was $5,000 for the year, which is zero considering the investment in it. And unfortunately, the events that happened on March 16th in Atlanta. Change the trajectory of both the show and my speaking career, because corporate America woke up and said, wait a minute. Actually, they didn't realize that we demanded it. The Asian people who work in corporate America said, can we please, please, please? Do you guys get it now? We're literally getting murdered in this country.
Jerry Won (00:39:00) - Can we please have a conversation about what it means to be us in corporate America? And so podcasts continued. My speaking stuff got very busy. I did about 30 or 40 virtual events in the span of six weeks. From a business perspective, it worked. Finally, because the speaking revenue from that six week span was just a hair over $100,000. And so I woke up in June and been like, Holy shit, this worked. I was tired as hell, but it worked. But then, you know, other thoughts creep in. What about the rest of the year? You're a one trick pony because ape is, you know, does corporate America want to see an Asian guy outside of Heritage Month? We're still trying to figure that out. Was all this money and attention in the community just a knee jerk reaction to people's death, or is this a sustained effort that we can use this as a spark to continue on? That also is still TBD, but nonetheless, you know, my my reputation and my brand, particularly on LinkedIn and where a lot of the speaking opportunities were inbound, is to put it all together, sort of where I found my voice and said.
Jerry Won (00:40:07) - This feels very comfortable, and the part of the comfort is that I now had eliminated the fear of what my employer would think, because I had no employer. And I also realized that there are far more people who agree and and resonate with what I say. Not worrying about company stuff. So that was 21. We had built some friendships and we have, you know, made our community grow in this space. A few months before the vice President interview, the coolest thing that happened was that I got invited to the Heritage Month celebration at the white House in May of 2022. It was actually really cool. We in 2020, we had somebody who at the time was working on the Biden campaign on the Asian American side, and then he eventually ended up working in the white House in the Office of Public Engagement. We had maintained our friendship. And he said, I think your work needs to be celebrated. I think I think you should be celebrated. And so, you know, got an invitation to go to the white House, like, what the hell? Right.
Jerry Won (00:41:08) - And, and more meaningful than any other circumstance, because this was for the specific result of or the specific reason for celebrating me for amplifying our stories. And so that was cool. I cried a lot. You know, my dad said he's proud of me. Which cool. I wish the next person that does something similar doesn't need to go to the freaking white House for their parents to say that that's the goal. Let's let's lower the bar of of proud parents, you know? And so that was cool. And then maybe because the seed had been planted in people's minds or whatnot, but somebody from the press team of the vice president's office had reached out and said, hey, you know, we're making a concerted effort here on the press team to diversify the media outlets exposure for the vice president. Obviously, they're being really smart, right? And so with like four days notice, they're like, we're having a reception at the vice president's residence. DC people forget that there's a world outside of D.C..
Jerry Won (00:42:12) - And so when they and they say, come, you just go, right? Like clear a schedule doesn't matter what the flight cost. You just go meet her there. It was obviously very humbling and validating at the same time without being cocky, but it's like, well, this is happening because of the work. And what better Asian American person to have on the show than the vice president? When will we ever have another one? I don't know, but when I started the show in March of 2020, we did not have a vice president who was Asian American, nor did we think we could have one. And so. We agreed to do the show in person. That show was actually recorded in Seattle, which is another fun story because they don't care. They just tell you to be somewhere where they're going to be and you got to figure it out. I got a 48 hour heads up to be in Seattle with the whole crew. Very expensive episode or most expensive episode ever. And then earlier this year, in May of 2023, for the first time ever, the white House hosted a forum for Asian American, Native Hawaiian and Pacific Islanders to kick off Heritage Month, and the vice president was a late add to the panel or the program.
Jerry Won (00:43:17) - And they called and said, hey, can you be in DC in 48 hours? And when they ask you that, you say, sure, yes, I'll be there. You know, it's you know, I live in this world of, I can't believe this is happening. And also equally with no shit. This is happening. This is why we do the work. And if I did the work in a way that I would be proud of, it is should be no surprise to me or to anybody else that people of that caliber want to also have their stories shared on the platform. Right. And so I know sometimes for Asian American people, it's we always play the humility card. But like I built that right where we're like 194 episodes were on hiatus. Now as we sort of retool, do the work, you know? So I think from that sort of perspective of like content creation and starting a podcast like, look, everybody should start one, but don't come ask for me for help unless you've done 50 episodes.
Jerry Won (00:44:23) - Like put in the work because. You got, you got to back up your ambitions. Right. And so 50 is an arbitrary number, by the way. But just, you know, commit to it and life will take you in different directions because of the work. I've been asked to advise startups and be, you know, offered equity for being a part of things that may be worth something one day. But they're all Asian founded companies. They're all whose missions are all aligned to the things that I want to do. You know, one of them is a shoe company called 1587 sneakers. It's like I own a piece of a shoe company. I didn't think that's not on the Jerry one Lifetime bingo card. Right. And so, you know, I want people to walk away thinking, what if I started sharing my story? And what if I did that with the consistency that my story deserves? Because I'll leave people with this. And I know everybody's stories and backgrounds are different, so tailor it to your own.
Jerry Won (00:45:22) - My grandparents, all four of them. We're born into Japanese occupied Korea. We did not have. We were not a country. We were a colony of another. It was illegal to have a Korean name, to speak the Korean language and to be Korean. We were thought of as second class citizens of a colony who wanted to wipe Korea off the face of history. They fought so that we could have our country back. World War Two had a lot to do with it. Obviously, Korea being freed from Japan, only to be then a pseudo colony of America. That's my interpretation of American history. Then they fought to save our country from the communists. So they had in their lifetime before they turned. How would I am today? They literally lost family members, had to be evacuated from home, and went through a whole lot of unimaginable and never to be told stories again. Then they had kids because I don't know why. Tough decision. But like, my mom's the youngest of eight. Like, what were you all thinking? But anyway, my my parents were born in the 50s in post-war Korea.
Jerry Won (00:46:23) - That looks nothing like it is today. And they grew up in a, you know, different circumstances. And when I was eight and my brother was nine, they decided to pick us up and move to America to go through a whole lot of stuff. I owe it to them because I find it incomprehensible and disrespectful that our parents and grandparents went through that. And what? We're scared to write a goddamn post because of. We're genuinely. And I'll be very direct here. We're scared of what our white coworkers are going to think about sharing our story. That's unimaginably rude. Yeah, because I know your great grandkids won't remember your name, but your grandkids will. And what do you want them to think about the thing that you did for them? That's hopefully all the motivation that people need. Because yes, I fully understand that we get to talk about so much privileged stuff. Today because of what our grandparents did. But you genuinely, you have to ask yourself a very honest question. If my grandparents came back today.
Jerry Won (00:47:37) - They said, what did you do with all the sacrifices that I made for you? Can you look them in the eye and say, yes, I am carrying the legacy of our family and caring the work of all of us forward to make this a country that's safer for Asian Americans, to raise our children, to be the next generation of leaders. And my weapon of choice has been storytelling. For each of you. It will be different, but you got to do something. We can't be pushing spreadsheets and be proud of PowerPoints and, you know, great. But what are you doing? For the other stuff. You can make money doing anything, but you got to make a difference in the community. You got to make a difference in your family. And I think we often forget what our parents or grandparents went through. And so that's my wish for everybody, right? Yes. Fuck saving face. But you got to understand why that exists. You got to understand what we have to do.
Jerry Won (00:48:36) - And again, I'm not encouraging everybody to quit their damn day jobs and do what I do. This shit's stressful. I don't know, I have no idea where the money is going to come from in six months. You know, it's freeing but frightening to do what I do. But in your own way, advocate, you know, give to causes, fundraise, show up to events, encourage somebody, mentor somebody, you know, teach your kids proper history and about your culture. You know, we all need all hands on deck because I don't know when people will listen to this, but, you know, 2024 yet again, we'll use the term the most important election of our generation go vote, go campaign, go whatever it is. And I don't really give two shits what side of the aisle you're on, but care and think about how it impacts all of us.
Judy Tsuei (00:49:19) - And so I mean, I usually end interviews by asking, what would you say fuck saving face about, but you basically just went into it there.
Judy Tsuei (00:49:27) - Is there anything else that you would love? I mean, I love the pointed questions that you're asking and helping to reframe to any time that we have those insecurities or those doubts, what it is that we're doing and why it is that we're doing it. And like you said, there's just to normalize all of this. There's so much work to be done yet ahead. And while it may not look like the sacrifices that our grandparents made are great grandparents made, there are still so much more to be done. So is there anything else that you want to add to impart?
Jerry Won (00:49:56) - Yeah, I mean, it's a direct ask, but I would ask everybody, especially as we head towards the holidays to pour money into the community. The Kardashian family and the Jordan empire no longer needs any more of your dollars because you have to ask yourself, how does Louis Vuitton invest back into my community? They do not. Whatever. We can do all sorts of analogies here. Think about where your money ends up. And so that belief and that action should be an everyday part of your life.
Jerry Won (00:50:30) - The other reason why you should do it is we often think about quality and good and best, like we talked about meritocracy earlier. If we don't have a fighting chance to end up on that shelf at Whole Foods, we never have a chance to be best. And so if you don't support that Kickstarter, if you don't go on a whim and buy somebody, you know, shoes, food, drink bag, whatever. We owe it to our community to give each other a fighting chance. You know, if you work at a company, consider the next time you host an event catering from a local Asian restaurant. When do we ever do that? We go. We give our corporate America dollars to national chains, and we just keep the money in Wall Street. Give it a chance. Don't be ashamed. You know, our food's good. It's really good, really good. And I guarantee you that dollar, that $500 catering bill, the 2000 that that will mean so much more to that small business.
Jerry Won (00:51:25) - Sweetgreen does not give two shits about your $2,000 catering bill. It means nothing to them. And I get it. Employees, local people don't come at me. But think about where your money ends up. Because I promise you, when you give Judy money and pay her for her services, and when you give me money, a lot of it goes back right into the local Asian restaurants. A lot of that money, and it goes to raising my two Korean leaders. And and it allows me to continue to do the work. A lot of that money goes back to the organizations that I support. That money, some of it goes to Delta. Some of it goes to Marriott. Asian person, please start an airline. But if we all commit to keeping more of our money within the community because unless we decide to change capitalism, which we're not going to. Economic empowerment is one of the most strongest tools to build power and also safety in the community. Because I this is the saddest realization that I've had over the last four years, that if we were properly, economically empowered, those six women in Atlanta don't have to go to work that day.
Jerry Won (00:52:33) - The 72 year old Indian grandmother doesn't have to work at a Fedex sorting facility in Indianapolis the month after, and our seniors don't have to put themselves at risk just to live. And so we have that opportunity. We just need to be more intentional about how we circulate that and the decisions that we make. And that's my ask. And so, you know, can we be 100% right on this? No, the trick here isn't something of equal caliber, because you have to think about my support will make them the equal caliber. And so take a chance. Go to go to night markets. Go ask around to your friends like, hey, I need to buy corporate gifts. I need to go buy Christmas cards. I need to go, you know, do all these things.
Speaker 3 (00:53:20) - That's great. Yeah.
Judy Tsuei (00:53:22) - If people want to continue to follow along your journey, where can they find you?
Jerry Won (00:53:26) - Please go to Jeroen and subscribe to the newsletter there. I am obviously active as hell on LinkedIn. My Instagram handle is now at Jerry Wan and that's special to me because for 12 years it was Jerry J1 and I can't share how I got it, but I got my name and so I so Jerry wan either.com or Instagram or LinkedIn anywhere.
Jerry Won (00:53:47) - And you know, and I will say I am very blessed and privileged to do the work that I do. And as you think about following me, I will also encourage you to follow three other people who are earlier in their journeys. Because let me tell you that support means you have a lot more to be somebodies fifth follower than where I where I am today.
Speaker 3 (00:54:06) - Thank you.
Judy Tsuei (00:54:08) - Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode. Tune in in two weeks for another mindfulness practice. And if you haven't checked out the last episode before this one, it was the first time that I shared a sample of a chapter from my book, and I am highly curious as to what you thought about it. So if you want to stay in touch, follow me on all the socials at Wild Hearted Words and you can especially find me on LinkedIn where I'm being most active right now. If you are an entrepreneur and you're looking to build your brand, that is a platform for you to check out. It is growing right now and there are so many businesses seeking LinkedIn thought influencers on the platform.
Judy Tsuei (00:54:51) - And if you are a voice of color, that is a space where you can really make an impact. Talk soon. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. If you'd like to support me and this show, please go to iTunes and leave your review. It means so much to me and it'll help others find this podcast. I'll catch you in the next episode, and if you'd like to stay in touch between now and then, please visit Wild Hearted Words and sign up for my weekly newsletter. I've had people share with me that it's the best thing to arrive in their inbox all week. Aloha!
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Keywords: Judy Tsuei, Jerry Won, keynote speaker, creative entrepreneur, Just Like Media, Asian storytelling company, Dear Asian Americans podcast, World Class Speakers, Asian Speaker Conference, South by Southwest, Harvard Business School, Google, Pepsi, representation, personal growth, maturity, volunteering, retirement home, Girl Scouts troop, life, purpose, spending spree, buying a house, passing of a friend, shining our light forward, positive impact, Vice President Kamala Harris, content creator, fired from previous job, traditional jobs, values, financial considerations, COVID-19 pandemic, student loan pauses, daycare closures, extended unemployment benefits, marginalized groups, social media, gender, race, representation, participation, LinkedIn, legacy, fear of other people's opinions, Asian community, shame, saving face, privilege, parents' journey, sacrifices, challenges, toxic masculinity, traditional gender roles, primary earner, taking risks, success stories, Asian American men, perceptions of affirmative action, equal opportunities, racial makeup, corporate America, caring for parents, family responsibilities, podcast, interview-based show, Brian Lee, immigrant parents, success, speaking engagements, White House, Asian American Heritage Month, impact, sharing stories, ancestors' legacy, community, supporting local businesses, economic empowerment, safety, Atlanta shootings, Indian grandmother, night markets, intentional spending, newsletter, LinkedIn, Instagram, support, previous episodes, iTunes, entrepreneurs
