EPISODE 41: YOUR BRAND SHOULD BE GAY (EVEN IF YOU'RE NOT)
MEET RE PEREZ
Re is a Brand Strategist, Keynote Speaker, and CEO of Branding For The People, an award-winning branding agency that helps small to midsize businesses create world-class brands that accelerate business growth.
He is also the author of the best selling book Your Brand Should Be Gay (Even If You’re Not): The Art and Science of Creating an Authentic Brand.
Re’s storied career includes senior positions at top global branding firms, including Interbrand, Siegel+Gale, and TMP Worldwide. Since embarking on his own in 2011, his agency has led branding engagements for hundreds of conscious businesses around the world.
As a member of B1G1, part of the agency proceeds are given to high-impact cause projects. Re holds a degree in Organizational Behavior and Communications from New York University and currently resides in Austin, TX.
You can contact Re at:
https://brandingforthepeople.com
SHOW NOTES
I'm really excited to have Re Perez here. He's a former fortune 500 brand consultant turned entrepreneur, speaker, best-selling author, and the name of his book is amazing, and CEO, founder of branding for the people, which is a branding agency that works with world-class brands and base in Austin, Texas. I'm really excited because we're going to talk about entrepreneurialism, which I think for anybody who's an entrepreneur, they would tell you that this is the best personal development course you could ever sign up for.
We also cover:
FULL TRANSCRIPT
If you listen to episode 40, you would have heard my circuitous, different, unexpected journey into entrepreneurialism. I was actually really, really reluctant to do it for a very long time because I watched my parents seemingly fail at it over and over and over again. They had an aquarium store in Rowland Heights that didn't do well. And, I mean, I had to clean fish tanks, I had to drive around to so many different fish aquatic suppliers throughout my junior high years.
It was miserable and terrible. And we used to actually have to sleep in my dad's construction company's warehouse because their business was so far away from where we lived.
So their business was about 45 minutes away from West LA. And, you know, LA traffic can be so gnarly and so crazy. And all of the vendors were throughout so much of Southern California or even other states. And we drove everywhere all the time and because of it, because of the long hours that my parents worked, sometimes they were just too exhausted to drive home. So they would just have a sleep in the Toyota minivan or the Honda Odyssey in the warehouse.
So when Trevor Noah talks about his upbringing, living in these kind of refurbished, renovated cars at this garage shop in his book, “Born A Crime”, which is an epic book. By the way, as a writer, you know, I didn't really follow Trevor Noah before then. I didn't really watch the daily show, but after hearing him narrate his book and just hearing the pros throughout it and his incredible life story. It was so amazing. So if you haven't listened to born a crime, I highly suggest it, but there is one chapter where he talks about, you know, just having to go with his stepfather everywhere to just be there, because that was how they were just making it day by day.
And that was so resonant with me. I mean, I had to take showers in the bathroom sink of my dad's warehouse before they woke up at the crack of Dawn to drive us back to LA so that they could just drop us off at school. And then it was like rinse and repeat. We would do it again and again.
So all of those things made entrepreneurialism very unappealing to me. And then just watching how much they struggled financially. They had a cheesesteak hoagie shop, they had, you know, my dad's construction business. And in addition to just how challenging it is to find clients and work, how to manage that, how to manage a family, where there were four young children and my grandmother was also living with us.
So there were just so many things to be responsible for and it never felt safe or secure. Because of all that I didn't want to go into entrepreneurialism I didn't have the confidence. I thought I would repeat my parents patterns and not be successful. And then subsequently in a copious amount of debt or just, you know, how unstable it was.
I didn't want to create that for myself or for my daughter. But every single time that I ever had a full-time job, my heart yearns to not be doing it, it yearns to have the freedom, to have my own time freedom, to be able to pick up and drop off my daughter to be at school events, to spend time with her, especially as a divorced parent, because I see her 50% of the time.
So I really want to maximize the time that I do have. In addition to that, you know, my levels of creativity and productivity shift. And I know that there are so many gurus who tell you, follow this strict regimen, follow the structure, follow the schedule in order to maximize your potential.
And you know, I've been learning a lot about cryptocurrency. So following all these different financial analysts, who've also studied the habits of millionaires. But then you'll also find other very successful people. Like Ramit Sethi who will say he doesn't do any of that. He doesn't follow any of those tips and tools of waking up really early or working out every day or whatever it is.
So I think that for so much of this podcast, it's about you finding your own path and your own way. I have been interviewing junior copywriters to build my marketing and branding team. And so, as I've been doing that, really talking about how I'm not attached to any of this, you know, outcome instead, I really believe in supporting each individual to thrive.
That's what this podcast is for. That's what I hope for any team member that I bring on. It's what I hope in any personal interaction, because each of us is on our own unique path. How could I be the one to tell you how your path should look. Instead, I want to be here to support you, to champion you, to hopefully provide an objective perspective so that you can go off and have the confidence and the resilience and the tenacity and the skills to go after what it is that you truly want. All of that said, you know, even though my parents had their own entrepreneurial journey, it was not something that I wanted to emulate.
My heart kept telling me that that is the way that I wanted to be. I wanted to go surf. When I wanted to surf, I wanted to travel around the world and be location independent. I wanted to have all these things. And those are the core values that I started learning were so much more important to me than the illusion of control or status.
And in fact, I really genuinely believe if you listened to the last episode, that if we only have this one go around on this planet, that we are aware of, that I want it to be the most remarkable existence that I can make it. And for me, that means writing a beautiful life story, which includes adventures and challenges and overcoming them and connection and beautiful moments that become truly imprinted on our hearts and on our souls.
The traditional Asian parent may want us to pursue certain careers that look very safe. And it makes a lot of sense, so much sense because they're coming from these immigrant mentalities. And a lot of times from scarcity or fleeing trauma, my parents left when they were very young children. They left China because the communist army was coming to take over and they had family members, parents who were high up in the nationalist military.
They were genuinely fleeing from trauma and they don't want their children to experience that same heart ache or struggle. And that makes a lot of sense. But for a lot of us, we're just programmed differently. We're growing up in different circumstances.
And so today's interview with Re Perez who’s CEO of Branding for the people will show you what it's like to not only pursue an entrepreneurial path, which can be very lonely at times, it's really flying in the face of so many, traditional tropes of what Asian parents want. But in addition to that, he came out and he came out very notably in a public way with his best-selling book. Your brand should be gay, even if you're not. The art and science of creating an authentic brand.
And so, in a lot of this interview, you'll hear how one person explores his own truth and how to live authentically personally and professionally. He's a brand strategist, who's also a keynote speaker and his award-winning branding agency called branding for the people helps small to mid-sized businesses create these world-class brands that accelerate business growth.
You'll hear him talk about his book and his career in terms of some of the things that he experienced because he is Asian because he didn't look the way that his superiors thought he needed to look in order to achieve the next level of his career. He is a member of B1G1 and part of the agency proceeds are given to high-impact cause projects.
And he currently resides in Austin, Texas. So you'll hear this incredible story of this founder, what he went through, and what he encourages you to also understand in your exploration of entrepreneurialism, of coming out of being a human who's living true to your core beliefs and your ideals.
Enjoy the interview!
Welcome to the F*ck Saving Face podcast. I'm your host, Judy Tsuei, and together we'll explore mental and emotional health for Asian Americans, especially breaking through any taboo topics. Life may not always be pretty, but it is indeed beautiful. Let's make your story beautiful today.
Welcome to the fuck saving face podcast, where we talk about all the taboo topics so that they can become less taboo and really empower mental and emotional health for Asian Americans.
I'm really excited to have Re Perez here. He's a former fortune 500 brand consultant turned entrepreneur, speaker, best-selling author. And the name of his book is amazing. And CEO, founder of branding for the people, which is a branding agency that works with world-class brands and your base in Austin, Texas, I'm really excited for today because we're going to talk about entrepreneurial-ism, which I think for anybody who's an entrepreneur, they would tell you that this is the best personal development course you could ever sign up for.
But even though so many, I feel Asian parents, maybe entrepreneurs in the sense that they had small businesses and this and that. It's not really a path that you are taught to pursue when you are growing up. I think that for most parents, they want you to do a more traditional path. And so I think even pursuing that requires so much courage and bravery for anybody as a general, whole, but having that kind of cultural lens makes it, you know, exponentially more.
So. And we're also going to talk about your coming out story, your being an Asian American male, because I think that those are also just along this theme of really pursuing what's authentic to you, how to show up in all of your vulnerability and power is really remarkable. So I'm going to turn it over to you, Re, and, just have you introduce yourself and also how you culturally identify.
Yeah. Cool. Thanks. So yeah, as you mentioned, my name is Re Perez and it's funny because when people see me, they see that I have more Asian features, but then they see a Spanish last name and they're like, what are you? And I was like, well, haven't you heard of this country called the Philippines? But more specifically, so I identify as American-born Filipino and Guamanian.
And for those who are, might not be familiar with Guam or Guamanian, it's for people who come from Guam. So that being said, both those countries have been colonized by Spain, hence the Spanish last name. So, you know, in some regards I identify as an Asian American, in some regards, I identify as many other things, but like in the context of this conversation, those are sort of the broad identifiers that I use.
Yeah. So that's me. And you are the sort of teed me up, you know, I have a 25 year career in branding and had the fortunate opportunity with working with, some of the smartest and brightest in the branding industry, working with a lot of household brand names. And now on my own for the past 10 years.
How big is your agency now?
I'm keeping it lean. So we are an agency of eight and we're on growth. Yeah. We're on a little bit of a growth trajectory. It's funny because, I don't know if you've seen this meme and this is really useful in the conversation of entrepreneurialism is that there's this meme on Facebook that I saw once it was like, you know, I left my corporate nine to five job to start my own business and create freedom where I work, you know? 24 hours.
Exactly. And I think that if you're lucky and you're doing what you love, I mean, I know that I'm programmed, I actually questioned this sometimes because I wonder how much of it is nature and how much of it is nurtured to think about the hard work aspect. So I derive a lot of joy from working hard. And yet I also understand that, I need to be cognizant of how much I work because, well, one, I have a child, but two, like I need to know that my value and my worth are not intimately tied with the production of what it is that I do. And that you can just be worthy for being, which is not an idea that is, you know, often taught.
It's like, well, I think also because, you know, if you were had traditional Asian parents, they probably told you, like, you better get straight A's, but not just straight A's, like a plus. So your value is very much derived from the output. And so I'm curious about for you in this journey, like what inspired you to become an entrepreneur?
Yeah, well, you know, I definitely want to unpack that question, but you, you hit on something that was quite interesting, that that came up from me, which was, uh, you know, we are in terms of culturally, uh, you know, I probably picked up a lot more of the Filipino culture and education is on top of the values. Right? In fact, you know, at the time when I was younger, between 14 and 19, my parents were. We're divorced and separated. They are now synced back together and remarried. And so that is, that's an interesting story in and of itself. But during that time, so my dad was in the military, so he was in the war.
And so we didn't understand PTSD at that timeframe, but, um, interestingly, my mom, as a single mom raising both my brothers and I, even though she couldn't afford the private school. We found a way to get financial aid and because she plays such a high value on education and my brother and I are very blessed and fortunate.
And I think because of her, we were able to go, we went to a private Jesuit Catholic high school, which led to a series of other things getting into, you know, I went to, uh, New York university, my brother went to UC Berkeley, so I'm sure my brother would appreciate that. So yeah, education was definitely a top on the value system for my mom, certainly. And, and I suppose for my dad as well, so they definitely pushed for education.
And I think I've been very fortunate in that my mom, well, very much Filipino culturally, was also probably a bit more modern or contemporary than some other Filipina moms in that, you know, at the end of the day, she wanted to make sure that we were happy and that we were pursuing our dreams, but, and I'm sure she was exposed to the typical things of like going into, for most Filipinos it's like becoming a doctor or a nurse or a med tech or, you know, those types of careers.
But I was very blessed and fortunate that my mom didn't really push us for that. I think it's a Testament to who she is, but yeah. So anyway, I just, I, I thought to say that, but then fast forward and jumped to your question, which is how did I get into being an entrepreneur? I mean, it's, it started out as an accidental entrepreneur.
I think I've always had an entrepreneurial mindset. Like even when I was 14, true story, I, I didn't come from money and I already admitted that, you know, my parents were, you know, my mom was a single mom at the time and I went to, I went to. Uh, high school with a bunch of rich kids, to be honest. And I wanted to wear nice clothes, so at 14, I was like, how to, can I make money? And, that's when I started working, I started getting my first job at 14, regardless the driver at that time was just so that I can buy nice clothes, but I think more importantly, so that I can be accepted.
So that I can fit in so that it didn't stand out or be made fun of like, I think like most people in high school or most kids in high school, it's like, we deal with all, some form of that.
So not only was I Asian to my white counterpart fellow students, but I didn't also want to have that other barrier of like, I wasn't as rich as they were, you know, or I didn't dress how kids would dress at that time. Right. Or couldn't afford the things.
So anyways, so it started out with that, but, um, I, my career path sort of, uh, I did work for several different organizations, but the thing that's most relevant is in my late twenties, I started getting recruited at some of the top branding firms.
And yeah, so I just had a colorful career in that. And I was at the height. What I thought was the height of my career at one of the top global branding firms. Wondering why wasn’t I getting passed up for a position? Why. Like, I'm smart, I'm committed. I'm dedicated. And why are other people getting promoted above me and the, I was sitting in front of the, the global HR director and she tells me in my face that I did not have enough gray hair.
Which if you're listening, uh, you probably can relate because the translation is that I didn't look old enough and it's probably one of the most illegal things at an HR person. So I didn't look at old enough and, and to be honest, quite, uh, in retrospect, I'm actually glad that I don't look my age. So I didn't look old enough.
And so that's sparked a journey which ultimately had me, uh, exit that company. I worked for some other firms and then my last post was in Dubai, but then I went through a series of personal life-changing events that sort of had me pause and had me think, well, I went through a personal breakup and I was like, huh.
It's just one of those breakups that kind of shook you to your core. And, uh, I just took several months off to figure out life. And so I went on a spiritual retreat. I went to Sedona. I was, I was doing yoga every day in New York and journaling, meditating, reading, and. You know, I, I was like, well, I kind of lost the passion for working with the big firms.
I still love branding. Why don’t I create my own economy, why don’t I create my own business, why don’t I take control of my destiny. And that's exactly what I did. And after six months of going through that process on top of healing, my broken heart, I came up with this idea of branding for the people. And the vision was to sort of bring this fortune 500 level branding to the small and midsize market.
I love that there's so much about your journey that I can resonate with. I mean, even from being in school and getting jobs at the age of 14 and 15, I went to Beverly Hills high school and we didn't live in that district, but the school came and recruited us from the junior high in the LA USD district.
Cause they needed more Chinese kids. So the five of these Chinese kids, like went from that junior high over to Beverly, which was like so traumatic. I wish that I had gone to the same high school that all my friends had gone to, where there were like school closures because of shootings and like things like that.
I was perfectly happy to go there instead of this new social class that I, my parents were constantly. In debt and like severe debt. So there was no way that I could keep up. And so they didn't have the money for me to do, you know, any of the basic things. And I realized like you like, well, I'm going to need to take that into my own hands.
And I didn't even know that you could legally work like at 15 and a half. Once I figured that out, I just immediately got two jobs. You know, and also because our parents ingrained in us how valuable education is. I took that money. And did I go shopping? No, I paid for my SAT classes. That's what I did and my college obligations and maybe some coffee bean here and there, but I also think. You know, uh, earlier you had mentioned your last name and how people don't understand that. And if anybody hasn't seen Russell Peters, his Standup is hilarious. And so his last name is Peter's, but he's Indian. And so he, when people ask him, like, why is your last name Peters? That's like a white last name and you're an Indian guy.
And he's like, “do you guys not know anything about Indian history? Like you don't know that like the British came over and colonized, you don't think they fucked one or two of us.”. Like, it was just so hilarious like that. And then all of the things about, you know, what Filipina moms want. Like Jokoy, I started watching some of his standup and I was laughing hysterically, like the way that he perceives and shares about Asian, you know, potential stereotypes and whatnot.
But I think that you also mentioned the bamboo ceiling that sometimes we hit. And so that can happen for any number of reasons, you know, in your experience, it was the fact that you didn't look at the age, even though you were, you had all the expertise, like all of the qualifications. And then for other things, there was an article that was published by someone on LinkedIn.
And they were saying that all these virtues that we have as an Asian-American culture, aren't seen in certain settings as virtuous, like. That you want harmony among the group and instead of like advocating for yourself and standing out and like being the star of the show, you're trying to think about everybody in the collective.
Good. But then that doesn't get you further along in your career or, you know, for any number of reasons. But I love that that became a catalyst for you to pursue your own journey.
And I think that the takeaway could be that, you know, for so many of us, when we go through a hard time, we often think that's it like that's the end, but it actually is just a pivot.
And so I saw this quote one time on one of my client's walls that said, you know, when something goes wrong in your life, just yell, plot twist, and move on. And so as a writer, it was such a great “yeah”. Like way to express that. But I wanted to ask you too, because I mean, you mentioned heartbreak and relationships and the name of your book is can you tell us, should we reveal it?
Yeah, actually it's, it's really interesting. So we'll, fast forward to there for a second where we will pivot there for a second because. I came out of the closet at around 19, I think do a couple of, you know, I came out actually technically at 18, but I came out to my mother at 19. And so, uh, so a whole year that I sort of like.
You know, it was, um, you know, exploring. I was de I dated a couple of guys and it was just something I just swore I would never tell my mom at that time. This was like in the early nineties when like the aids epidemic and, um, uh, gays in the military were hot topics on the news. And I just, I don't know, at that time, you know, my parents were divorced at the time.
My brother was out at UC Berkeley and I don't know, I just, I didn't at the time I had so much shame around that and I didn't really feel like I wanted to share that with my mom. So anyway, I came out. At 19 and, you know, I never really wear like being gay on my sleeve. It's not that I hide it. And that's an important distinction.
It's not that I'm not proud of who I am and it's not that I wouldn't tell someone if that came up in conversation, it's just my expression doesn't necessarily lend itself to the typical, uh, stereotypes of, uh, of how a gay person should behave or act or speak. And so, um, my book to your point, I gave so much context there, but this is probably the first time I was actually really out, really putting myself out there because I have been on a journey of being absolutely comfortable and confident in who I am and who I'm not.
And so the book is called your brand should be gay. In parentheses, even if you're not. So anyway, so if you think about that tight, if you're listening in your brand should be gay, even if you're not. A couple of things are probably happening. Either you are laughing or you're like, oh, that's clever. That's cool.
That's funny, whatever. Or, um, a wide range of emotions or maybe you're like, oh, why should it be gay? Might've been piqued your curiosity. Or maybe, maybe. There might be a smaller fraction of you that might be offended or maybe not comfortable with the term gay and wherever you are. It's all perfect because that's what branding does.
Branding elicits an emotional reaction in people. It piques people's curiosity. And if anything, it oftentimes polarizes, but more specifically, it oftentimes sort of attracts the people who are. Freaking love you. And it repels the people that you're not necessarily going to vibe with. So that's the name of my book and, uh, you know, kind of brings in a lot there, you know, of me being totally okay.
Going out, you know, publishing a book and being public about that. And it's like, Hey, if you didn't know, I was gay. You kind of know now well, and I think that there's something that you were saying of, there's a difference between hiding it and then just like pushing it out there in a very obvious way.
And I think that for most people, I mean, in my experience of real confidence and like real comfort with yourself, you're not the one who's out there shouting from the rooftops. Look at me, look at me like I'm so great. You're just. Embodying it and living it. And I think that for so many of the things that we've talked about on this podcast, it would be really nice if it were just normalized.
Like if we didn't even have to highlight it and bring attention to it, because it's just a matter of fact. And so that's what you're talking about. And I love, you know, I mean, just coming from a branding marketing background, myself, that polarization is great. Yeah. And I think what you were saying too, is that, that title or any idea that you put out there when it has that potential to be polarizing, that is going to attract the people who really love you and the people who don't.
I think that that's another challenge too. If you grew up in a people pleasing kind of atmosphere to be okay with the fact that people don't like you and that you don't have to change their mind, you don't have to like, do anything extra or be anything more. Right. And that it's okay that you're not going to be for everyone.
And that took me a really long time to get to that place of, you know, like, I mean, still to this day who doesn't want people to like them. Like, I think that's a natural human tendency. We all want to feel like you're a part of a community and we're accepted even the most confident people that I know still have, like, you know, areas of their lives, where they feel a bit self-conscious about.
But I think that it does require a certain level of confidence and being able to be tested and. You know, really finding out who you are to sit with that ability to be uncomfortable. If people like, you know, don't agree with you. Yeah. You know, I want, if, if it's okay, I want to rip off of something. You just said it's just right there for me.
And, you know, yes. I think to some degree we all desire to be liked by other people. Right. But the nuance and the distinction here is that if your context in life or your context for why you do things. Is to be liked that will only get you so far. But if you're, if your context is, is inside of a commitment or a stand or a movement or something, it doesn't always require the condition of being liked.
You know, people who started great movements. Are standing for something and they're less concerned about being liked per se. Right? I think what, how I, whether it's a reframe or whether it's a distinction, I think we all desire to feel like we belong. And the belongingness sort of manifested in many different ways.
We belong in our family. We belong within a community. We belong, you know, in this human race. Um, but at the same time, you're not going to belong everywhere. Right. And so I think for me, that's either the rate reframe that I've used or the distinction is like, yeah. You know, I have a sense of belonging with the people that I love and the people that love me, but I don't, I'm not going to belong everywhere and that's okay.
No. I love that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I want to take a moment to, to celebrate your book and like you putting that out there, it's such a huge Testament to like you writing a book is also not easy. So like good for you. And I'm curious too about, you know, this journey of coming out because you came out like when you were a young adult, like in your, at 1819, what was that like?
For you and then for your mom, like how did that play in? Oh my gosh. I've actually never shared this on a, on a podcast ever. And so I don't know.
Story. This is actually how I came out to my mom, bless my mom listens to this. So it was about, so like I was between 18 and 19 and I got exposed to the club scene and you know, I was a freshmen in college and so. I got invited to the club scene, but on straight night it was a gay club, but it was straight night.
And so I would go with my girlfriends and we would go dancing and the music was amazing. Back then, I was like on a trance and house and all that sort of stuff. The raves, like that was, it was so much fun. The music was so good. Okay. I, uh, you just brought me back there for a second and, uh, anyway, so. I was out and about, I was outside of the club and I came across this guy that I had recognized.
Anyway, he was like, Hey, you go to this club. And I was like, oh yeah, I go there on the straight night though. Why don't you meet me on Sunday? Which clearly is not. Straight night. And I was like, oh, I did. So anyway, that's the guy who brought me out of the closet, but I was still, I was still nervous about being out there, you know, like I was just really, really nervous being out there.
And so for about a year, I, I had dated two guys at the time or experimented with two guys and was still trying to sort my way and how I was going to navigate this. But I'm really close with my mom. And, you know, they say mothers always know. And so we were having dinner one time and, uh, she goes, you know, I had a dream and it wasn't good and I don't know why, but my heart just started eating really fast.
I'm like, oh my God, this is like my worst fear to like come out to my mom. And I was like, is she trying to out me? So, but I totally did. I totally did poker face. Right. And I was like, yeah, what was your dream about? And she was like, well, you know, I was asking, you know, we were talking about, I don't know, gays in the military or something.
And she's like, you know, she goes, I, I had asked you, you know, have you been with guys before? And I had said yes. And then in the dream still, and then I, she asked. How many, and I said eight, and then she looks me dead in the eye and she goes, um, is that true?
Oh my gosh.
I, first of all, my first response was to chuckle and laugh and I was like, well, yes and no. I said the exact words I use where I have experimented with guys. Because even then I wasn't ready to say I was gay. I was like experimented with guys. And no, it was an eight, it was two. And so that's why I gave you all that backdrop.
So the moment that those words came out, that mouth, I like put my head on the table on the dining table and it just started crying. I couldn't look at my mom. And so that was my coming out story. And, um, it was a little bit of a shock for her, but again, like mothers always know, I think she inherently knew she just wanted to get it out there.
And I guess it was kind of like a bomb that you're like, all right. I was looking for this bomb and I found it. But fast forward today, I'm still very much. If not. Yeah, my mom is my rock. She's like the closest person in my life. So, uh, yeah, that was a very interesting, no, I, yeah. I mean, I think that, that's interesting too.
The fact that you were saying like moms always know, because as much of a challenge relationship that I've had with my own tiger mom, There are many times where she just looked at me like straight in the eye and she was like, this is what's happening. Isn't it. And I'm like, wow. Did you know that? I thought you knew nothing about my life.
So yes. There's that kind of innate ability, but I'm also curious, um, you know, like your, did you experience any other challenges being, Asian-American being an Asian American male that, you know, come to mind? Cause I think you and I had mentioned before we got onto this recording about how I've just heard so much that the Asian.
American male experience is such an invisible experience and it can be so like infuriating for many, because of that, because of like not being seen and not being heard. And so I really want to present an opportunity, you know, for men to share the experiences that they've gone through, because I think that there is something so healing and cathartic about.
Hearing someone else speak your story and identify and be like, oh my gosh, I'm not alone. I'm not alone in the world. There's someone else who's gone through what I've gone through. Or just to hear someone else's experiment, experience told through their words. So that even if I didn't understand, and if I'm not in the same boat that hearing that lends some sort of compassion or, you know, eye opening perspective that maybe I hadn't seen before.
And ideally like this all moves us forward and, you know, redefining what it means to be. I was going to say Asian in America today, Asian American, but I, I think it's just redefining how we approach ourselves as humans and like humanity. I think that we're in a revolution right now of being much more transparent.
That's been a marketing branding thing for a long time. It's the transparency and the authenticity and all of that good stuff. And then how powerful that is informing real connections. Cause we can, you know, I think for some, they might think like branding is just like putting on this like image or this illusion or whatever, but actually if you build a great brand, you're building something that.
Has core values to it and that people can resonate with and all of that. So I'm curious about your experience as an Asian American male. Yeah. Well, there's a lot to unpack there first off. I feel like I want to say that. You know, my experience is just one experience. And, uh, for anyone listening in any other Asian males out there, you know, this is not representative or, you know, the collective experience.
Maybe you might find some things that are thematic across the way, but, but my experience might be a little unique. I don't know. Uh, yes I did. Come across the same things, partly because we mostly went to a predominantly white schools. Right. And so, um, and even if I think about other Asian Americans, there was probably maybe two or three of us, maybe four or five.
Um, but even that, like even Filipinos. And me being half Filipino, half communion, but more like Filipinos, even that was like a different type of Asian to, um, to the, our peers. Right. But they lump us all into the same category. Right. I still got called names like chink and kids will say stupid shit. So I got all those names and then all those stereotypes of like, oh, you're really smart.
Can we copy off of your tests? Can we, you know, it's like, shit like that. Right. And I think because I was very blessed and fortunate to have a little being home environment from my mom and a brother that was 14 months older than me. And we were really close because we had the values that were there still in there.
I think for me, I don't know that I fully understood prejudice at that time. And if anything, I think my own coping mechanism was that I actually related to myself. As better than my peer students, total coping mechanism. I'm not saying that, you know, whatever, but I was actually like, yeah, I am pretty smart.
Why aren't you? Right. And so I almost, it was more like a way to sort of deflect or to like, not. Consume that negative energy, but here there's a payoff and a cost to both those things. And so the payoff was so that I can actually feel safe and secure so that I can create my own sense of worth and value and not diminish who I am.
And knowing that at home, I had the support from my family. But one of the potential costs, I would say in retrospect, I mean, obviously the benefit is it toughens you up. Right. But I think one of the potential costs is that it did not give me an opportunity to, I had mentioned earlier about belonging. I didn't get it.
I didn't have a sense of belonging of being like someone that they would openly willingly welcome to, uh, their games or their, their parties or their social events or this and that. I always felt like I was a little bit on the outside. And I wasn't entirely on the inside. And even on the outside, I almost feel like I was kinda like one foot in one foot out anyways.
So that was just my experience. Maybe it might even be tougher for Asian men than Asian women. And this is totally my own perception because Asian women are beautiful. And of course, you know, I, maybe I'm speaking from a guy's perspective and just seeing like a lot of my guy friends are like, you know, they're attracted to beautiful women.
Right. But like, as Asian men, there's probably the sense of like, I don't know, maybe a little bit of emasculating or you're less of a man because you're not. You know, whatever the typical, what media says, what a man should look like or sound like. So I think I had some of those feelings and I don't think that they really manifested a lot in terms of like experiences per se, because of what I just shared earlier, but just how I just sorta coped with all of it.
Does that make any sense at all? Oh yeah. I mean, I think that you're right. And I actually did an interview with someone who hosts a queer Asian podcast. And he said like the Asian female experience is very different because of the different cultural lenses that we approach, you know, the fetishization, the sexualization of women, there's like a certain level of acceptance or desire there.
That doesn't happen with the Asian males. And I remember I was trying to find the link to it, but I remember listening to it on NPR about like why Asian men are perceived the way that they are given the historical and political context of what it is that, you know, we had gone through and how like threatening the Western male found Asian men to be.
Because I think originally it was perceived that Asian men were actually like very well endowed and like, you know, we're going to come take their women. And so there had to be a lot of this emasculation in order to protect themselves. And so. Kind of what you said about, we do different things to protect ourselves, even if it doesn't really like fully make sense.
It's whatever the survivalist mechanism can be. And I actually just spoke with someone who shared this quote that she had come across, that she kind of created herself, given all the clients that she's worked with to help them kind of define their gifts and like bring it out into the world. But she said there's a lot to be said about a bad childhood.
And I think that along those lines, everything that could have been traumatic or a hindrance or whatever it is that we experienced, if we can reframe and shift the lens, it can actually, we can see how it made us more resilient, more tenacious, more. For example, for me, like I had to constantly be on edge all the time, because I didn't know when my parents were going to argue with each other again.
And that fear and that fear of like, oh, if someone says the wrong thing, they're going to like, you know, freak out then. It got me very attuned to listening to the undercurrent of like the messages and the words that were being said. And while that was very scary growing up now how it's translated and what I've done with it is that I can actually hear what people are telling me underneath the words that they're actually saying.
So I feel, especially when I was teaching a lot of yoga, I felt like I could almost see. Um, not necessarily with my eyes, but like energetically, I could see what they were actually trying to express under in the, you know, the subtext of the context of their words. So that's kind of what you were saying too, is like it's, it's a pro and a con like, whatever it is that you've learned.
So I'm curious, you know, as we're moving towards the end of the interview, and if there's anything else that you want to share, but I always ask this question to all my guests of this idea of fuck saving face. Like if there was a taboo you could break through, if there was some sort of idea that you wish that other people would know more about or help to aluminate.
What's something that you would share for the listeners. Yeah. So I'm going to bring it. So interestingly, the, if the book title captured your attention, right, your brand should be gay, even if you're not, great, you know, check mark. I got your attention, the subtitle of the book, it's the art and science of creating an authentic brand.
Now largely, my agency works with business brands, so we brand businesses, but there's just been a huge surge. And, and we've been accepting clients who are also building personal brands. So whether you're, uh, building a business brand or personal brand, The message that I want to, you know, sort of convey and talk about is really centered around this idea of authenticity and like, you know, stay with me here.
Like if you're listening and you're like, oh yeah, I've heard that word before you, you know, maybe it's an overused word in your, depending on what circles you're in. Maybe it's not. But I think even with recent events and not to go into any great detail of, of, of things, but I think. I relate to the way that the, the, the world, the consciousness of the world sort of being elevated over the past year and a half and two years.
And so I just feel like what people are really stepping into and resonating is being authentic, having a more authentic life, living their purpose, finding their true north, them doing themselves and not like necessarily trying to be like. This guru that, or try to, you know, model after this person, like everyone's really trying to really find their own journey.
Like what's their journey. That's unique to them. And then consequently from a commerce perspective is that we, we tend to, and we are becoming even more likely to buy, refer, recommend support brands and other people who are equally. Authentic. And so the goal is, and finding that space of what's authentic to you and owning it because you can say you're authentic, but if you're not being authentic, people consciously or subconsciously can pick up on that and they can feel that disconnect, but it's when you're truly aligned your values, your belief systems, your points of view, when you are fully integrated in all of that.
Then people know exactly who you are and who you're not. They know exactly what to expect from you and not expect from you. And that's what we want. And it's not all about trying to be alike. We're all going to be different. And yet we can all learn from one another. We can all agree to disagree. We can all have healthy conversations, but that comes from this knowingness and this being of, of just being authentic to who you are and sharing your truth.
In your experiences and then hopefully, maybe someone on the other end that you're interacting with is going to learn something about themselves, challenged something about themselves, or even just, I don't know, maybe be inspired to step up their own way of being in their own authentic life. Yeah, thank you so much.
I fully agree. And I absolutely agree that we within us have this kind of like truth barometer, and we can recognize when someone else is actually being authentic or not. And I also find that it's gotta be so exhausting to not be your full self in all avenues of your life, to think that you have to be one way over here.
And one way over there, like. Especially with social media and all the ways that people track everybody. And like, how can you even keep track of that? So like, I think that it's so much more liberating. It's not like a tomorrow you'll wake up and then all of a sudden decide, I think it's a journey. Like we're all perpetually learning and evolving.
But I've always found that in both business and my personal life being genuine and being super authentic has only led to remarkable benefits. It's like led to deep connections. It's led to clients remembering me like a decade later and wanting to work with me. So I think that this is super important for anyone.
Who's just looking to find more of that ability to be who you were born to be like you weren't born to be somebody else you're born to be used. So let's just be you. Thank you so much for your time. If anybody wants to follow up with you and order your book, where can they find you? Yeah, thanks. I appreciate that.
Well, I can't say that I'm on all the social media things, but I'm on the main ones, but, um, yeah, the book is just on your brand should be gay.com. Uh, my agency is just called branding for, for branding, for the people I'm mostly on, on Instagram and Facebook. That's okay. I know it's like a, it's an interesting relationship with social media, but I was just told today from one of my mentors that he's like, discord is kind of like the anti-social social media.
And I just loved that description. Cause I was like, yes, I think that's. The right fit for me, but thank you so much for your time. Have a beautiful rest of your day. And I hope that for anybody who wants to get your book, they'll go dive in or, you know, walk away with the juicy nuggets. So apply to your own life.
Yeah. I just, you know, I just wanted to say thank you. Uh, this is probably the first and perhaps, maybe, hopefully there'll be more, but yeah. Really the first, I agreed to have this conversation with you because of what you're doing and what you're standing for and your brand and your message. So I just really applaud you and acknowledge you for giving voice to other Asian-Americans across a variety of topics and the commitment that you have to sort of curate and generate and, and proselytize all the content that you're creating.
So kudos to you. And thank you so much for having me on your show. Thank you. I hope you enjoy this interview with Re Perez and that there was something that you gleaned along the way of listening, that you can practice and apply it to your own life and how to live more authentically, how to pursue a professional career path that maybe didn't look the way that you thought how to understand that you're not alone in the ups and downs and all arounds of finding what brings you joy and makes you come alive.
As always, I would be honored if you would support the podcast, if you would go rate it five stars. And again, here is my daughter for a little bit of a shameless plug podcast. It has a bad word in it, but I think you'll know where to find it. Tune back in on Friday for our mindfulness practice.
Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. If you liked what you heard and know someone in your life who might also benefit from hearing this episode, please feel free to share it with them. Also, if you'd like to support our show, you can make a one-time donation fcksavingface.com. Or, you can make a recurring donation at patreon.com/fcksavingface. That's “fck” without the “u.” Subscribe today to stay tuned for all future episodes.
