EPISODE 61: WHAT'S IT LIKE TO TRIP ON DMT?

May 6

SHOW NOTES

What’s it like to trip on DMT? In this episode, I share my own personal experiences — and how I went from being selected as a representative of the Drug Abuse Resistance Program (DARE) in elementary school to becoming a yoga teacher exposed to what LSD and hallucinogenics could do to expand spiritual consciousness to defying my Chinese parents’ expectations of what’s acceptable when it came to any sort of substance. If you’ve ever been curious about mushrooms, ayahuasca, acid, or DMT, this is the episode for you to listen to… especially when it comes to how it relates to mental and emotional health.

We also cover:

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Judy Tsuei 0:06

Welcome to the F*ck Saving Face podcast. I'm your host, Judy Tsuei, and together we'll explore mental and emotional health for Asian Americans, especially breaking through any taboo topics. Life may not always be pretty, but it is indeed beautiful. Let's make your story beautiful today.

Judy Tsuei 0:23

This is the last week of season one, can you believe it? If you're new to this podcast and just joining in to this episode today, thank you so much for your time. If you have been listening to the podcast for a while now, I truly appreciate your time, your energy, your support and sharing this space with me.

Judy Tsuei 0:42

Now, what's up for season two? Well, I already have a bunch of incredible interviews that are recorded. And I also have an amazing team of humans who I'm working with to innovate and play around with what content is going to look like, in September when we launch again, for those of you who've been following for a while now you will know that learning how to play is something new for me, that's a move away from perfectionistic tendencies from overachieving from, you know, doing more, being more rather than viewing myself as enough and allowing myself to make mistakes and learn along the way.

Judy Tsuei 1:19

If you have come from a traditional Chinese background, like I have, you know, growing up in the States, then you probably had a lot of expectations placed on you that an A wasn't good enough, and you had to go for an A plus. So I have had people in my life say that it has been incredible that I've put out three episodes a week. And content creation has always been my forte, my strength, but also learning to do things sustainably. And to know that, you know, I'm a divorced Mom, I have a six and a half year old, I want to be really present with her. I also have a strategic content marketing agency, and junior copywriters who I work with, and so managing all of those things, in addition to a really phenomenal relationship with a human in my life, and it's all a big, big learning.

Judy Tsuei 2:07

With all of that said, if you have loved the podcast, then I would be so grateful if you would share the love in one of these ways or all of these ways. First and foremost is sharing it with those in your life who you think would benefit from hearing the stories that I've shared personally, the interviews with the experts and the mindfulness practices.

Judy Tsuei 2:28

This whole podcast was designed so that people know that they are not alone in the things that they're going through, whether that's struggles and challenges, or triumphs and celebrations, that the whole gamut of the human experience is okay and accepted. And that we don't need to hide behind, you know, false superficial images of who we think we're supposed to be. But rather we can be who we are, and in that create deeper, more meaningful connections with other people, and truly remove any stigma around mental and emotional health.

Judy Tsuei 3:01

For those of you who know me, you know that I believe that hurt people hurt people. And so in order to truly help heal the world, it does begin with us. And then it begins with those that we know. And then from there, maybe it's the other interactions that we have with the strangers in our lives and the community that's around us and building those relationships and those connections. But really, it has to start with us first and foremost, and we've got to be healthy, and you know, in a good space, so that if there are wounds that we learn to heal them, if there are tender spots, we learn to approach them with grace and care and compassion, so that we are consciously moving through the world rather than lashing out or invoking more pain for other people when we're hurting.

Judy Tsuei 3:46

I hope that this podcast over this past season has been this opportunity for you to exhale and know that you are not alone. And that it can provide some sort of renewed faith in the fact that all of the most difficult times or even the little hiccups that we go through, you know in our day to day lives, that we can get through them, and that we can create a beautiful story in the end. And if you look at any sort of masterpiece, any work of art, any film that you've loved, it's not all unicorns, and cupcakes all the time. It's the challenges, and the heartbreaks, and the aches and all of those which makes the story rich. It's why villains also need to have, you know, the whole expanse of emotions. If one person is all bad, they're not relatable. And if one person is all good, they're not relatable, either. We are all moving through this gradient of the in between.

Judy Tsuei 4:44

So one way that you can share the love, as I've mentioned, is to share it with someone in your life. The second way that you can share the love is if you haven't gone to your favorite listening platform to rate and review then please do so there are all these algorithms and if you talk to anybody in the online world who As any sort of business in that space, it can be extremely frustrating to know that you are, you know, endeavoring to do good work. And yet the way that the algorithms are programmed, it sometimes doesn't favor you and doesn't work to your advantage.

Judy Tsuei 5:14

So if we want to break the algorithm, and we really want to support good content, being out there in the world, and supportive resources of people doing good work, all the experts who I've interviewed to really highlight that there are people who are endeavoring to live in integrity and help others, then one of the ways to do that is to share your thoughts, and you can share them by rating and reviewing. That's an incredible way or because I truly do value your thoughts, and I want to hear them I love stories. Anybody who's in my life knows that I love stories. So so much I love hearing people's stories. One of the things that people say to me all the time is that they feel that they can tell me things because they know that I won't judge them. And I don't know why I would ever judge anyone because I'm the last person to do that.

Judy Tsuei 6:05

I think I have, given the experiences that I've gone through so much more understanding and compassion for, you know, mistakes that are made for people being fallible for how deeply things can hurt and how much we all just want to grow and be. And so you know, with that said, I would love to hear your thoughts. If you could take a moment and go to fcksavingface[dot]com forward slash you "y" "o" "u"? That's fck without the U. Oh, I just realized how funny that is. Fucksavingface[dot]com forward slash you "y" "o" "u", to fill out a survey and share your thoughts. I would love to know during this time that I am on hiatus, what it is that you've loved what you would like to see more of where you would like to see improvements, or anything that maybe I don't even know just so that I can get to know you better and be of better service.

Judy Tsuei 6:59

And as a thank you for your time. And to pay it forward. Every month for everyone who's filled out the survey, I will choose a winner. And that winner will get to select which charity of the month that I will donate to. So I already am involved in different organizations where I'm continually contributing. But instead of offering like a gift card or something like that, we can create an even bigger impact. So I will choose a winner from anybody who fills out the survey that month. And then I will ask you which charity you'd like for me to donate to.

Judy Tsuei 7:30

So those are three ways that you can share the love, you can do it by sharing this podcast with someone in your life. You can go rate and review or you can complete the survey or you could do all of those things. And I would be so honored. Also, your reviews truly do help me they help remind me why I'm doing this work. So just this last week, I had a mom and my life reach out to me and say that she started going into this black hole of thinking and anxiety and despair. And then she put on one of my podcast episodes, and it really helped draw her out of that space. And then I had someone else on Instagram comment that the interview about trauma with Kj Nosrule that we did last week was super helpful and understanding big t trauma or lowercase t trauma.

Judy Tsuei 8:15

So these thoughts, and you're sharing to me whether you do it on Instagram, whether you send me a message to Hello@fcksavingface or whether you are in my life. And I know you and you're listening to me, that truly helps to remind me of why I'm doing this work. As you know, for anybody who's pursuing your passion or pursuing some sort of calling, you can be filled with doubt sometimes. And you can wonder if anyone's actually listening or anyone's actually paying attention or if you know this work is actually meaningful and worthwhile.

Judy Tsuei 8:46

And while it is such a great reminder to know that we do this work, because the journey and the process of it is enjoyable. It offers something it's full of growth, this podcast Academy that I'm just about to complete, shared a lot of different podcast hosts who are realizing that maybe there's not that monetary return, but there's definitely some sort of benefit that they're getting in building a community building a network, building their expertise, whatever it is.

Judy Tsuei 9:11

So with all that said, it still truly helps to continue to motivate forward to know your thoughts. And you know, at the end of the day, I'm a human to. So all of your cheering and championing on is very, very meaningful to me. So thank you.

Judy Tsuei 9:28

Because this is the last week I'm going to share one more thing, and it's that lately, I have been realizing that I feel like I'm going through a shift in identity. Some might call it like a crisis of consciousness or, you know, just understanding that, hey, maybe the ways I've done things before aren't exactly working for me anymore. They've got me to a certain point. But from here moving forward, I'm really evaluating my core values, the things that I would like to see how to cultivate more joy and more enjoyment in every moment of my life, there are two pieces of feedback that I get all the time. And one of them is, I don't know anybody who works harder than you.

Judy Tsuei 10:10

And the second, you're one of the smartest people I know. So just because of those two things, those tendencies, or maybe those traits, it doesn't mean that I have to be that way, it doesn't mean that I have to spend every single second of my day absorbing information. Because at one point, I'm not sure if it's an innate drive within me, or if it's still me, you know, living up to Tiger parenting standards of what a quote unquote good person is, I think also with the pandemic, and with myriad factors in life, that sometimes we don't realize how much influence or if you're a sensitive person, if you're a highly sensitive person, and HSP, like me, how much you're taking on.

Judy Tsuei 10:58

And it's just been an awareness, an aha moment for myself to start asking deeper questions, and be curious about the answer to be okay, and the discomfort of not knowing and to not continually grasp for an answer right away, so I can find myself on solid ground. That tendency is probably why I've invested so much money in different courses and coaches that never really came to fruition the way that I wanted. Maybe I gleaned a little bit here and there. But in retrospect, I think I could have saved a lot of money. If I just trusted myself or the journey a little bit more.

Judy Tsuei 11:35

I have been working since I was 15 and a half since I realized that that was a legal age that you could work. But even before then I was supporting myself mentally and emotionally in the family of origin that I had. And you can go listen to previous episodes to hear more stories about what it was like, in my childhood that helped create kind of the person that I am now. Good or bad, or everything in between.

Judy Tsuei 11:59

When I got my Simon and Schuster book deal last year, and then, you know, I finished the first round of the manuscript, I started realizing that something was wrong, because it didn't feel this elation. I didn't feel that I was living out a childhood dream. I thought, well, it's not this book deal, or it's not that. And I realized that if I continued to do that, and continue to move the goalposts, as was done to me so many times growing up, where I was placed in circumstances that were impossible to win, there was no winning. So if I continue to do that to myself, then I will hit these bigger milestones and objectives, but it'll never feel like enough. And I just wanted to break that pattern. If that is anything that you resonate with, I would love to hear from you.

Judy Tsuei 12:47

I realized that if I can't enjoy the process, then what's the point? So it's time to do something differently. I'm learning how to do less, to be more quote, unquote, average and to take a lot of pressure off of myself to always be exceptional. If the result of Tiger parenting is never being content, always striving for more always feeling like somehow, some way I'm still underperforming. What kind of life is that? And what kind of template is that setting up for my own daughter? When it comes to breaking patterns. That's what we are going to talk about with Dr. Sam Ko this week on Wednesday as we explore ketamine therapy, especially when it comes to treating mental and emotional health.

Judy Tsuei 13:30

So Samuel Ko MD is a Board Certified emergency physician and the founder of reset ketamine, a medical clinic in Palm Springs, California. He is committed to providing patients with an innovative and rapid treatment for depression, anxiety, PTSD, chronic pain, so that they can go back to living a whole healthy life. ketamine got its start in Belgium in the 1960s as an anesthesia medicine for animals and then the FDA approved it as an anesthetic for people in 1970. It was used in treating injured soldiers from the Vietnam warm. And unlike other anesthetics, ketamine doesn't slow breathing or heart rate, so then patients don't need to be on a ventilator to receive it. what's notable about ketamine is that it causes what doctors call a dissociative experience and what you know, your average person will call a trip.

Judy Tsuei 14:19

That's how it became a club drug that was called K or Special K, super K, vitamin K, among others. So partiers would inject it, put it in drink, snorted, add it to joints, or cigarettes, and it created a different kind of reputation. You'll hear about, you know, the status of ketamine. Now in the us when we talk to Dr. Ko, and you'll hear what it's currently being used for.

Judy Tsuei 14:43

In our interview, you'll hear how he went from a burnt out doctor to pursuing a personal growth path that took him through sermonic work mindfulness and an innovative approach to treatment for his patients. And for me, personally, I'm a huge advocate of these kind of fringe or gray industries when it comes to money. on emotional health, because despite its controversy, I fully believe in mental and emotional health innovation, obviously, you know, with safety standards, but I written for a lot of different cannabis companies.

Judy Tsuei 15:12

I've learned a lot about the regulations about growing and in an interview with my friend of Eve, who was on Shark Tank and owned one of the first cannabis companies in Los Angeles before it was legalized. I learned a lot about all of this. And you'll hear more about him by joining my Patreon, where you can have access to that interview. It's super fascinating. I actually mentioned Aviv a little bit later in today's essay. For today, we'll talk about how I went from being selected by the dare and that's drug abuse resistance education program in my elementary school as representative of their mission to say no to drugs.

Judy Tsuei 15:50

And growing up in a household where any kind of substance was deemed extremely bad to try and cannabis psilocybin, DMT, and more. In elementary school, I wasn't just the teacher's pet, I was the school pet. It was the only area in my life where I felt like I was getting any sort of validation. As the eldest of four kids at home, the black sheep of the family where I walked too loud, talk too loud, I never felt accepted. I felt like everything that I did was wrong, that my mere existence was too much or not enough. I could not find a space for me in my life.

Judy Tsuei 16:22

But at school at school, I could give all the right answers. I could smile, I could be quiet, I could listen and the teachers loved that I did what they told me to do. They liked that I was smart. And my extra Saturday math tutoring meant that anytime we had any sort of competitive game, academically in class, I was the winner. I was always the winner. So teacher after teacher made me the office monitor. They called me over when they needed an extra hand I got straight A's. I made such a reputation as being a quote unquote Good girl that whenever the principal of overland Avenue elementary school needed anything, she'd buzz whatever classroom I was in and asked for me to come to the office to help her.

Judy Tsuei 17:03

I never went to the principal's office because I got in trouble. I went because the principal needed me to run an errand for her bringing something from her office to a teacher's classroom or delivering some sort of message that needed to be sent in that moment. I loved being in my classroom getting buzzed, getting up from my seat, pushing the button on the intercom and letting her know that I was coming. This made me feel special. For once in my life in one area of my life. I was special. I'd open the heavy wooden door and be greeted by redheaded pear shaped hair and body Miss stubby. Her warm I swam behind round glasses.

Judy Tsuei 17:45

"Hi, Judy". She'd say, "I loved this place. I loved being called into the principal's office." Then one day while we were in the auditorium getting ready for an assembly. An older student came to get me. The principal wants to see you unperturbed by this since this was my huge experience. I went to the office as I normally would. Hi, Judy. Miss Debbie greeted me. Hi, Miss Debbie. Then to my left. I heard a male voice Are you Judy? I turned to look. Here was a white haired white man in a Los Angeles Police Department black uniform. He was in full gear belt with weapons. Yes, I responded as a question.

Judy Tsuei 18:24

Before he could say anything else. The principal came out to greet me. She had short brown curly hair. Hi, Judy. She said and smiled. I smiled back Come on in. She opened the swinging gate that was at waist level to Let me through. I began to follow her than realize the police officer was also getting up. He stood to me looking like a giant and started following me into her office. What is happening right now. The principal asked me to sit down. I did as I was told the officer sat in the seat beside me. So Judy, this is officer and now I can't remember his name. I nodded.

Judy Tsuei 19:02

We wanted to let you know that a few months ago, your name and Casey's name were entered into a raffle. Every school that's been participating in the dare program had two students from the sixth grade class get selected by computer to potentially win a trip to Michael Jackson's ranch in Santa Barbara, where you'll get to meet him and celebrate finishing the program. None of the students who were selected knew about it. So the computer randomly picked 50 students from that whole pool of people and I'm happy to say you're one of them, you'll be going to Michael Jackson's ranch. And the dare officer who's been working with you this year will also go with you.

Judy Tsuei 19:33

At this point. I didn't really know how to process I was still probably reeling that I'd never been in trouble in my life. And here was an officer who I didn't know who's following me into the principal's office. As an adult, I wonder how I didn't think at the time that something terrible may have happened to a family member or why this officer was here. And how I wasn't freaking out more that maybe I thought I had done something wrong. And we were entered into what what did Michael Jackson have to do with any of this, I wasn't allowed to watch TV at home, so I barely registered that he was the king of pop at his peak in the early 90s fame.

Judy Tsuei 20:07

Regardless, after all of this, I was just excited that the dare officer we had Officer palca not this man who was sitting beside me right now. Officer palca, who was over six feet tall and super cute was going to accompany me on this trip. Teenage hormones on overdrive. preteen, actually, yes, in retrospect, I realized that thinking there were buses of children from all over the country getting carded to see Michael Jackson who later be questioned for his behavior. Well, none of that at the time factored in, obviously, also weird was that we were going on this trip without our parents and the only chaperones would be all these other cops who nobody knew. And anyways, it was just a very weird offering and how any of it was associated with a drug abuse resistance education program, I have no idea.

Judy Tsuei 20:53

What I do know is that I got to stay at this hotel in Santa Barbara with another student, that Officer palca would be there all weekend too. And we got to go to Michael Jackson's ranch Neverland, we would watch Back to the Future three in this huge movie theater on his property, where every one of the seats sat alone. This is the same theater he later share with Oprah in an interview on her show, and when watching it, I would remember exactly where I was.

Judy Tsuei 21:24

That day, we had free rein of the concession stand, we jumped on Michael Jackson's trampoline with bubbles, the chimp, we met Fred Savage, who was super famous because of Wonder yours at the time, and David Faustino, who was also at the height of Married with Children fame. We didn't however, meet MJ as he had gotten, quote, unquote, sick at the time and was somewhere recovering with Elizabeth Taylor, although one officer did tell us you never know he could be watching you from his window pointing up to the giant mansion, which again, in retrospect, is now super creepy.

Judy Tsuei 21:55

All of that is to say that I remember creating this bright neon pink poster board with stencils circles on it that represented your brain cells, healthy ones. And then there was another half of the poster board, which was your brain cells on drugs, they look destroyed. I remember that that project was good even at the time that I was creating it. And I remember winning some sort of something in the classroom that maybe helped lead to being one of the students who were selected to go on this trip. But the thing that I didn't know was I didn't know anything about drugs.

Judy Tsuei 22:28

That program was ridiculous. It did not prepare me at all for any of the hard conversations that you would ever have. If you ever felt pressured by anyone to do anything. The only thing that I knew was the fear that I would be disowned by my parents if I ever tried anything elicit it. Then I went to Berkeley, where the nude parade was a regular thing done telegraph Avenue. My University was created with a hippie alternative mindset. I had a lot of friends in the dorms were smoking pot all the time. I tried it once twice, went out to buy huge slices of pizza from fat slice or demolish them with my future roommate Joanne. Neither of us saying anything at the time.

Judy Tsuei 23:07

I partied at frat houses with beers in my 20s maybe a beer bong rip or two, but I was still a good girl. Then I became a yoga teacher and started learning about other paths towards expanding your consciousness. Yes, of course there was meditation, silent retreats and all those things. But there was also psychotropics and hallucinogenics. How could you not learn about these things when you also learn about Ramdas and all that he espoused from his experiences with LSD? Not only did he write the book be here now, he helped popularize Eastern spirituality and yoga in the West. Prior to becoming Ramdas. He was Dr. Richard Alpert, a prominent Harvard psychologist and psychedelic pioneer with Dr. Timothy Leary. He met his guru named Karoly Baba, known as maharajji, who gave Ramdas his name which means servant of God.

Judy Tsuei 23:53

In 1961, while at Harvard, he was exploring human consciousness and with Timothy Leary, Ralph Metzner Aldous Huxley, Allen ginsburg and more, he began to pursue intensive research about psilocybin, LSD 25 and other psychedelic chemicals. From this research came two books, the psychedelic experienced, which was based on the Tibetan Book of the Dead, and LSD. But because of the highly controversial nature of their research, Richard Alpert and Timothy Leary became persona non grata and were dismissed from Harvard in 1963. They then went to Mexico, ate mushrooms, and went from being academics to counter cultural icons, legends in their own time, who were very young at the time to you can read on Ramdas his site. He's since now past that his psychedelic work turned out to be this prelude to the mystical country of the spirit and the source of consciousness itself. Mind expansion via chemical substances became a catalyst for spiritual awakening.

Judy Tsuei 24:55

This is when he went east to India and Then once they're through a series of seeming coincidences, he met neem karoli Baba. And that's when the transformation from Richard Alpert to Ramdas happened. Now I was in my 30s I was a yoga teacher, I had friends who are regularly microdosing on shrooms. Then I moved to Hawaii, I began to learn about Iosco ceremonies from a housemaid who'd regularly return to Guatemala to lead ceremonies for those on retreat. I had been used ritually medicinally and spiritually by Amazonian tribes for centuries, indigenous people in Colombia and Peru who considered it a way to heal internal wounds, and reconnect with nature.

Judy Tsuei 25:38

Then I moved back to San Diego and started getting involved in the biohacking breathing and ice bath community and started getting invited to Iosco ceremonies myself, but I personally haven't been able to try it because the purging element to the medicine is something of an aversion for me having spent almost nine straight months nauseated and throwing up while pregnant from hyperemesis gravidarum. So there's no way that I would willingly feel sick again, whether for spiritual purposes or not. Fast forward to meeting my friend Aviv, who I mentioned earlier, we were both working at a mindfulness app. And prior to his work here, he was also on Shark Tank.

Judy Tsuei 26:18

He asked me if I wanted to try DMT and I had known about it because I had read about it, I had read that it was called the god molecule that it's the hallucinogenic compound and iosa. Some say that it resembles a near death experience, near death experience. And D was coined by a philosopher and psychologist Raymond Moody in his 1975 book life after life, he studied 50 people who experienced clinical death, but were subsequently revived, identifying common elements, a bright light, a sense of detachment from the body, feelings of security and warmth, and encounters with spiritual beings such as angels.

Judy Tsuei 26:53

You'll hear more about this on Wednesday when I interviewed Dr. Sam Ko about the experiences his patients have had with ketamine. Every single living being from a plant to an animal to human has DMT. And is explained to me by a wave of fires in your brain when you're born, and it flares in your brain when you die. When I did DMT, we sat on a quiet porch in Temecula, California, the stars were bright in the night sky. I asked what the experience would be like, it's short, he told me it's about 15 minutes, he said, How will I know it's begun? Oh, you'll know. He said, assuredly.

Judy Tsuei 27:25

Have you ever guided anyone in a bad trip? Yeah, it's rare. But I could also tell you who that might happen to because they wanted to control things very much. My biggest piece of advice to you is that you don't resist the experience. Let it happen. I inhaled the DMT. And he was right. The second it hit my system, it felt like space and time melted together. I could feel myself initially resisting the falling into the void that began to appear. But I remembered what he said. And then I let go, I surrendered. And I had the wildest trip of my life. He sat with me held space, played music that I could feel in my body. I felt like I was floating on color a sliding down images and shapes inside a kaleidoscope. I didn't touch God.

Judy Tsuei 28:14

But I definitely experienced something that made me realize that what I learned in yoga is true that we believe so much in the reality that we can see touch and feel. But there are subtle energies around us within us that we could access if we believed greater or more. I have experienced real magic in my life. The serendipity and synchronicity that have happened to me have demonstrated that there is either a higher level of spiritual consciousness, or that there indeed divine orchestrations in our lifetimes. There has been too much to think that it is pure coincidence, and if it were simply math, then I would have won the lottery multiple times over.

Judy Tsuei 28:56

Join me on Wednesday as we explore how to shift pattern thinking and treatment methodologies to take into consideration ancient wisdom and modern science to help you break through. Again, if you want to learn more, go to the show notes. There are links to all the articles that dive deeper into the different substances that I've mentioned today. And I would really like to hear from you. Please go to fcksavingface[dot]com/you and share your thoughts. It's a survey asking you questions about this podcast about who you are and I would love to know. Have a beautiful rest of your day. And I will see you on Wednesday.

Wilder 29:34

Please support my mom podcast has a bad word in it, but I think you'll know where to find that.

Judy Tsuei 29:41

Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. If you liked what you heard and know someone in your life who might also benefit from hearing this episode, please feel free to share it with them. Also, if you'd like to support our show, you can make a one-time donation fcksavingface.com. Or, you can make a recurring donation at patreon.com/fcksavingface. That's “fck” without the “u.” Subscribe today to stay tuned for all future episodes.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai