EPISODE 69: AMPLIFYING BIPOC VOICES IN INVESTING WITH NATHALIE MOLINA NIÑO
MEET: NATHALIE MOLINA NIÑO
Nathalie Molina Niño is Managing Director at Known Holdings, investor (Builder Capitalist), author, educator, and retired global tech entrepreneur. As part of her work as a champion of women, communities of color and the planet, she co-founded the trade organization for Builder Capitalism, a long-view, alternative asset class to Venture Capital. In 2018, her book LEAPFROG, The New Revolution for Women Entrepreneurs (Penguin Random House, Tarcher Perigee) was named one of Book Authority’s “Best CEO Books of All Time.”
Today, Molina Niño serves as a Venture Partner at Connectivity Ventures Fund, an advisor for Goldman Sachs’ Launch with GS Black and Latinx Cohort, WOCstar Fund, FullCycle, Accion Opportunity Fund, Vote Run Lead, Women Entrepreneurs NYC (WE NYC), and Hispanas Organized for Political Equality (HOPE).
In support of her efforts to make reproductive healthcare more accessible and affordable, she serves on the board of the National Institute for Reproductive Health and The American Medical Association’s Center for Health Equity.
Website:
https://leapfroghacks.com/nathalie/
Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/globalmisfit
Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/nathaliemolinanino/
Twitter:
https://twitter.com/NathalieMolina
LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathaliemolina/
SHOW NOTES
I'm thrilled to break our tradition of having only AAPI voices on the podcast with none other than the extraordinary advocate, Nathalie Molina Niño!
Though we recorded this episode weeks ago, I'm still processing our conversation because we talk a lot about the topics that, I believe, don't get spotlighted enough because of the amount of shame and guilt that can come along with it in Asian culture: investing. AKA, money.
I can't imagine anyone more qualified to come on the show and talk about this topic than Nathalie because of all her work as a (now retired) global entrepreneur and investor. Her life's goal right now? Investing in opportunities for BIPOC folks to achieve positions of ownership.
If you're shying away from listening to this episode either because you've experienced a lot of shame and guilt around money or because you feel intimidated by investing, I highly encourage you to tune in. Nathalie is a captivating storyteller and she spills some amazing nuggets of wisdom during this episode about debt, investing, ownership, and confidence that I know you'll feel inspired by.
We also explore:
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Judy Tsuei 00:00
Welcome back. This episode is super exciting for multiple reasons. The first of which is the fact that Natalie Molina Nino is the first non Asian American voice that I brought onto the show. And I'm excited that in future episodes, I will continue to have more voices that truly bridge the gap. I think that this work around diversity, equity and inclusion, I am not an expert by any means. But I think that storytelling is an incredibly powerful way for us to understand one another, to connect to empathize. And research has actually shown that our brains when we hear stories, we do put ourselves into that person's shoes, we start to visualize and imagine what it would be like for them.
Judy Tsuei 00:45
And so it is storytelling that helps us to cultivate more of that sense of compassion and empathy because we really get why someone is feeling the way that they do, even if our backgrounds are different, even if our life experiences are different. The other reason this interview is so exciting is because Natalie Molina, Nino is a f*cking badass. So she wrote the book leapfrog the new revolution for women entrepreneurs that was published with Penguin Random House, and I was reading the book, thanks to my really good friend Deborah. She was recommending it. So Deborah is Latina, or Latinx.
Judy Tsuei 01:22
And I'm always about reading books and narratives and not just supporting these other voices, but also because I feel like the lens through which they experience the world is more common and similar to mine, being someone who is not, let's say, a white man, which you'll hear Natalie talk about in our upcoming interview. She's the managing director at known holdings. She's an investor, author, educator, retired global tech entrepreneur, and you'll hear her share this phenomenal story, because she hit some really remarkable milestones very early on in her career, and then had to redefine what it was that she wanted to do. By the way, book authority named leap frog, one of the best seo books of all time.
Judy Tsuei 02:08
She's also the co founder of entrepreneurs at Athena at the Athena Center for Leadership Studies at Barnard College at Columbia University. In 2015, she stepped in as Chief Revenue Officer of power to fly to help grow what's now the fastest growing online hiring platform for women in tech. And I actually discovered power to fly when I was living abroad in Taiwan, and spoke with the co founders of that organization as well. Also, when I was doing research before I started speaking with her, there were so many interviews, where as people were going through her bio, it was paragraphs of just unbelievable accomplishments.
Judy Tsuei 02:47
So it was really fun to be able to kind of hear that and speak to her about that in today's interview as well. Already, I'm going to just throw in a few more accolades. She's advised multiple companies like Disney, Microsoft, Goldman Sachs, MTV, and so on. She's involved in a lot of organizations that support bipoc voices and marginalized populations. And she's really passionate about making reproductive health care more accessible and affordable.
Judy Tsuei 03:14
So she serves on the board of the National Institute for Reproductive Health in the American Medical Association Center for Health Equity. Also in 2019, she was honored with Schnaps inaugural women of Wall Street awards for her influence in banking and finance, and she was named among People magazine's most powerful Latinas. This entire conversation, she was just so generous with her time and attention and being forthright and forthcoming.
Judy Tsuei 03:39
Welcome to the f*ck saving face podcast. I'm your host Judy Tsuei. And together we'll explore mental and emotional health for Asian Americans and beyond all by breaking through taboo topics, like may not always be pretty, but it is indeed beautiful. Let's make your story beautiful today. Welcome back to the f*ck saving face podcast. We are in season two. And I'm so excited today to have Natalie Melina Nino and she has paragraphs of bios.
Judy Tsuei 04:45
I know, I know, but I just want to stop and say the first non API. Like there, I feel I feel honored. And I feel like all of my Filipino friends growing up who used to call me honorary are right now very excited. I will spare you all of the to Galo bad words that I know. I'm sure I'll offend people. But no, I mean, listen, thank you. I'm honored. And there are systemic issues at play. And I think part of the success of that narrative that puts us in a corner is to make us believe that we are the anomaly, right? When we're actually the majority.
06:58
And it's, it's wild, right? Because that's really, that's, that's part of it. And so it makes me happy to hear stories like you, thank you, I am, am blessed with people sending me Instagram and Twitter and other notes here and there about things that, you know, they were able to do. And in some cases, to your point, it's just about almost getting permission, right? Like the idea wasn't the most innovative. It's like I you know, sure I include this in the book, but someone else could have easily come up with it. But it's something about hearing somebody say like, and it's okay to do this. It's totally valid. And, you know, you're not the only one. And there's something about that, that gives people you know, I think a little wind, you know, in their sail, and I think that, you know, I can't think of a better consequence. Yeah, so, so now Yeah, I mean, yeah,
Judy Tsuei 07:44
I was gonna say you, you know, you're in this industry of venture capital work. When you read the book, leapfrog all the stories that you have of all the people that you know, everything from, like the White House to this incredible humans that that incredible human, it's really remarkable that you woven all those things together. But as you were just saying, the whole point about leapfrog is to give you permission to take the shortcuts because if a, let's say, a white man who has a trust fund, or whatever the quote unquote, standard is, and if you don't look like that, or that's not your upbringing, and that's not your background, well, how are you going to access the same kind of funding.
Judy Tsuei 08:21
So I'd love for you to talk a bit about like your background, and, and all the incredible that work that you do with Athena, because you do a huge law, I'll come to that last chapter and what you said in the the quotes that you have there, but you do so much giving back and so much inspiring female entrepreneurs. So not to cut you off. But if you could tell me about your like, professional background.
08:41
I love it. That was a very nice way of saying answer the question, Natalie. I will, I promise. So yes, my career started early on, I started a.com I was actually still in college, I dropped out of grad school in order to focus on that. And I got lucky. And before the.com crash, we had an exit and because I'm, I don't know, I'm a glutton for punishment, it was both probably one of the most painful things I ever went through and as well as one of the most fun and rewarding things. And so, you know, that's the perfect combination for an addiction.
09:10
And so I started two more companies. And I spent 15 years, nearly 15 years, just shy of 14 years in that career, as you know, a founder and sort of a serial entrepreneur and intrapreneur because eventually I ended up partnering with big companies and working, you know, inside of big, big companies and having clients like Microsoft and Google and Disney and Mattel and a lot of other big companies that I ended up sort of getting a first hand view into sort of the belly of the beast of how those work that really critical times right in their growth.
09:40
So after all of that learning, in 2000, what would that be 12 I retired, I stepped down, I stepped down at a weird time where most people would have thought that, you know, you kind of enjoy I guess but I wasn't learning anymore. And I wanted to learn and so I decided to take what I thought was gonna be a couple years off, I went back to school. And I also co founded the Center for Women Entrepreneurs at Barnard, a women's college connected to Columbia University. And, you know, it didn't I know that when people read my bio, it sort of feels like an automatic thing, like she did all this stuff in tech. And then she decided to get back.
10:16
That really wasn't it, I kind of came into that, you know, kicking and screaming on some level, right? Because I just wanted to meet time. And there's nothing wrong with having me time. But I was just like, I deserve some new tie. I'm gonna take a couple of years to do something that's sort of unrelated to anything, something that I love. And I decided, you know, I was a halfway decent storyteller, but I was gonna take a couple years to become a better storyteller. So I went back to college. I, for some reason, because they have a sense of humor. I think, Columbia let me into their theater program. I went and studied playwriting, I got involved with Hamilton, like weird things happened. Those are like my Forrest Gump years.
10:52
But in the process, I met this woman who very interesting that we're talking about this today, who argued a landmark case in the Supreme Court called Casey versus Planned Parenthood, and one, and she is credited with saving Roe v. Wade, I had the privilege of meeting her up getting to know her becoming her friend. And she's an activist through and through she, you know, you can't separate that with her identity. She is an activist, that's who she exists in the world to be. And thank goodness for, you know, millions of women for a generation that she is that person, but she was the one that kind of gave me a kick in the pants and said, you know, you can't just have a career like you just had, and then sail into the sunset, like, especially you because you didn't even leave it better than you found it.
11:38
Tech is worse today than when you started. And it's true, we have half as many women graduating as engineers today is when I was starting. And so, you know, her point to me was, you're not done, you have to get back in the game. And you have to be sure that you're at least trying to leave it a little better than you found it and, and she was right and, and ultimately, it was on her urging that we co founded the Center for Women entrepreneurs, and that we did all the work that we did at Athena, she has since stepped down from her position, I stepped down from my position, we both focused on other things, thank goodness, now she's focusing on advocacy, especially around Roe, and I'm focusing on investing.
12:15
And that was my big move. Right. And that's kind of brings you to maybe where I am now is that in 2016, I realized that I did need to get back in the game. But I had spent a number of years giving back and paying it forward. But that at the end of the day, I could prepare women to lead and to build companies. But what do you do when you're then unleashing them on a world that isn't prepared to receive them? Right, and investors that aren't prepared to write checks to them and people who aren't prepared to see their value? Right. And so it became clear to me that my work with with women working directly with especially young women, but ultimately we had programs even for women over 50, who by the way, women over 50 are twice as likely to be successful as entrepreneurs. Hmm.
13:04
There is solid actuarial data for generations that prove that out. If Silicon Valley actually cared about making money, it would be swimming and women over the age of 50. But you know, it kind of gives you a sense of what they actually care about. And so ultimately, I made the decision to go into investing because every single problem that I saw in the business space that was impacting women, if you snuffed it out, and you followed sort of, you know, where the root of problem was, it always boiled down to where the money is.
13:35
And so as much as it pains me to go into an industry that was even more male dominated than tech, as I've said, Before, I am a glutton for punishment, I decided to go into finance. And that's where I am now. And so I'm an investor now, I started investing with a gender lens. And then what I realized is that a lot of people took that to mean, what most people mean, when they say that they invest in women. They thought I met white women. And I realized I needed to be more specific. And so now I am far more specific about saying that I'm investing in the community that powers in the US a nearly $4 trillion economy, and that is communities of color. Hmm,
Judy Tsuei 14:17
I love that I think, you know, one of the chapters that you wrote about is this idea of debt. And it's reframing the understanding around debt. And I would love for you to talk about that. Because growing up so the other thing that you wrote about at the very start of your book is that you came from immigrant parents, you know, like you have your grandmother, all of that was very resonant with me. And I think it's interesting, the different trajectories that people can go down.
Judy Tsuei 14:39
You know, I interviewed another guest who said that when you come from these families, the parents aren't seeing themselves as entrepreneurs. They're seeing themselves as small business owners who are just like trying to like get by. But because of that, and because I grew up with such a, you know, hefty amount of debt from my parents like because they didn't they weren't in a country where they're speaking their language. We're trying to help like for kids get by all of this kind of stuff, the shame and the stigma around debt was so huge. So reading your chapter about reframing that. And I mean, that's one of the examples of like, by leapfrog hack, can you talk a little bit more about that? How, like, women can just kind of shift their mindset?
15:17
Yeah, well, and especially to your point, look, immigrant families, you know, I can't speak to other languages, but in Spanish, like, it's, it's such a loaded word, though, right? That this word of debt, just, it's such a negative negative connotation. It's almost like a character flaw level, right? Whereas, you know, as you look at big businesses everywhere, even when they have money in the bank, it's not efficient to deploy that capital, you can exponentially grow the impact of the capital you're deploying, by taking and putting 20% of your money and having the other 80% being provided by the bank, right? There's so many ways where debt is just smart.
15:58
But we didn't grow up being taught that, right? And I think some of that reframing is factual, like, here are the facts. If you find good debt, because there's such thing as good debt and bad debt, right? There's predatory debt, and there's not predatory debt. But if you know the facts, and you know that there are debt products out there that are that are good for your business that are healthy, that actually you should balance in case you do have investors who do put equity in there, it should be a balanced capital stack. That's the thing, right? You never want to have only equity dollars in you've got to also have debt, you can present people with all of those facts.
16:36
And it makes all sorts of sense, that still doesn't change that feeling in your gut that says this feels bad. And I think that's the part where I work on with, especially immigrant kids, where I explained that I have an 8020 rule, this is not the book, but I talk about this a lot. And it's different, a lot of efficiency hacks, talk about 8020, right, and focusing on productivity. And now my 8020 rules a little bit different in that, I think that for those of us that honor our ancestors, and are not out here and trying to rebel and reject our cultures, right, and assimilate at all costs, for those of us that are actually quite proud of our cultures and have absolutely no problem, you know, coexisting with our native cultures, as well as the new cultures.
17:19
I talk about how my 8020 rule is that you honor your family by taking 80% of everything that's beautiful and good about your culture. And then you honor yourself, by allowing yourself a 20%, where you can be discerning, and you can say, what is being passed on to me, from my culture, from my parents, from my grandparents, that is going to be part of this 20% that I that I basically decline to put forward and bring into my life and maybe future generations, right, where it's served them? And maybe it actually served them really well. You know, if, if I'm an immigrant family, and I'm being sold predatory debt, it's probably a good idea for you to have a healthy skepticism about it, right.
18:03
But I'm in a different place. And this is a different time. And what's that 20% that I'm going to gracefully and with honor, say, No, thank you. I'm not going to hear inherit that. Right. And I think that is a little bit of a psychological, given the title of your podcasts. I'm assuming I can say it's a Yeah, mind. Fuck, yeah. You have to, you know, that you have to sort of embrace and almost meditate on in order to get beyond just the facts. I can convince anybody that debt is good.
18:33
But how do I convince them to stop feeling that pit in their stomach that says it's bad, right, and this is the part where it's ingrained? It's multi generational, it's cultural. And I think that that's it, you just have to, you know, see example, after example of where the things were, you know, I'm honored. I'm honored to take on the mantle. And I'm honored to preserve that aspect of my culture and my upbringing, but there's a category of things where I'm just gonna say, No,
Judy Tsuei 18:58
I love that you're saying that, because I think what we talked touched upon at the start of this podcast is this idea of giving permission. And I think just even you saying that out loud, is probably going to give a bunch of listeners permission to be like, wait a minute, I never even thought I had the option to reframe or, you know, choose something a little bit different, while at the same time honoring the lessons that were brought forward. And one of the chapters in your book, you also talk about core values, and it's only recently in the last like, five years.
Judy Tsuei 19:24
I mean, I became a yoga teacher maybe 10 years ago. So I started thinking about those bigger ideas and like what actually applied to me and all that kind of stuff. But this idea of reframing core values that you can carry that forward in business. I loved your story, where you shared that, you know, you were invited to this event where Ivanka Trump was going to be speaking and you're like, well, the cause of the event is good. But I'm not aligned with some of these other ideals. And I think that requires that reflection upon core values and then that kind of confidence. So it's very apparent in your book. You know, there's a lot of I have to say I quoted someone In my response, I was so sorry. But yes, you're
20:03
right, it just takes, as the friend said, it takes something to be able to write that. And for those that haven't read the book yet, I quoted a famous playwright who responded to an invitation once and basically said, politely, thank you for the invitation. But I would rather die. And so I quoted a Nobel Prize winning playwright, to, you know, the State Department and telling them that, just like him, I would rather die.
Judy Tsuei 20:35
And that goes to this, you know, point of having the confidence. So how did you build that confidence up to be in the spaces that you're in right now, because I was gonna say that as I was reading this, I mean, I'm very lucky with the people that I am around, and that I've met throughout my life. And you know, it's all echelons. But I think that that confidence, and the confidence that I see you moving forward in your life, based on what you've written in the book is remarkable. And it's easy to compare and be like, I can't, like I'm not there. And like, you know, so how did you build that and come to where you are now,
21:10
I think part of it, and I don't think you have to actually live through it to, to get there. I think that's why the stories to me are really important. So that people and you know, as you know, we were talking about actually earlier is the stories are how our brain remembers things. And so, sometimes I'll remember something, and then I'll realize, oh, that actually didn't happen to me, that happened to my friend who just told me the story and like, I've somehow integrated into my body, right. And I hope that people do that. Because for me, what happened in meeting people who I grew up learning about in textbooks, and then getting to meet them face to face, and getting to actually be a value to them, right, the day that kitty Kolber, who saved Roe v, frickin Wade, right, said, I need your advice, you know, your head explodes, right?
21:59
But you realize that no matter how legendary somebody is, no matter how much of an expert, they are at something, you can't know everything, you can't be good at everything. And so there is probably some corner of something where you can be a value, because they don't know everything that you know, right, there is some area where you can truly bring something to the table that that they didn't have, right. And I think as I started to have that kind of interaction with people, especially, you know, moving to New York, and being surrounded by just a crazy cast of amazing human beings, it just became clear to me that you can be in a room full of people that are just trying to impress somebody, a voice in the crowd, or you could have real talk with people, and just tell it like it is, and people will respect you, they will remember you, and they will value you.
22:54
Because, you know, you don't want to I don't try to be controversial for the sake of being controversial. I really speaking my mind in those cases, right. And so I think that what I have found, maybe through trial and error is that that's actually how you create value in a room. Right? It's how people can actually see the nugget of sort of why knowing you and working with you, or just being friends with you is something that might be additive to their lives, right? Simply being polite, or simply, you know, going through the motions of the standard interaction, how are you doing? I'm having a good day, I'm fine, you know, to having somebody asked me, How are you doing, and me being actually honest, which is so unusual, right? And telling somebody will actually this just happen, right? It's memorable.
23:45
And it's where I think the sort of secret sauce of life lives. And I think that that's it, I don't know, if it was confidence, as much as it was a trial and error process that reminded me again, and again, like, ah, like, this is actually how people remember me and how people trust me and how people will call me. And then the other thing, a lot of people talk about this is coming to the realization that I'm trying to ultimately be in integrity with my people. And I want the people who's who I value to appreciate my contributions and the people who I don't value my you know, it might rub them the right way, the wrong way.
24:29
They might be alienated, they might not buy if I'm selling a product, they might not buy the product, they might you know, even be offended. Look, I you know, my values around being pro choice and being very vocal about that, you know, all I'm doing is being in integrity with myself and the people I care about. But there are people in my own family who are offended by that opinion, right? And I'm not trying to offend them. My opinion is just offensive to them. And so I think coming to the realization that I can't make everybody happy, but if I set out to create really Do bonds with people that I actually care about? And then I'm probably going to be pretty happy with my life. When I look back.
Judy Tsuei 25:06
Yeah, well, in your, in your book, you talk about how, when you do live in that integrity, then you don't have to really worry about if they're going to be trolls or like other things, because you won't have to cover your steps, since you will just be showing up as authentically you so that people in your tribe, and the people who resonate with your messaging will, you know, gravitate towards you, you have this call out in one of your chapters about like, where people can find support, if there are people who are, you know, potentially hating on them, and like how to address that, which I think is very important.
Judy Tsuei 25:34
And you know, being in that controversial space, to it from a marketing perspective, like people always tell you like, that helps you to get attention and helps you to gain like stickiness, and all that kind of stuff. But I think one of the things that I wanted to ask you about as well, is this idea of, you know, diversity and inclusion. And where do you see otherwise known
25:53
as reality?
Judy Tsuei 25:55
Right? Yeah, exactly. Where do you see like, you know, I think that one of the things, it's great if we say all the stats, and you know, like, we know all the facts, like that's one thing, but then how do you move from the facts of how many people are getting like funding and all that kind of stuff to Okay, but what do we actually do? Like, what can we do to create that conversation? And so in all of your experience, with all the different companies that you work with, and the teams and the people, what do you wish was being kind of talked about or looked at when it comes to just creating more diverse opportunities, more inclusion?
26:29
Uh, you know, it's funny, I don't know that I knew that I was gonna answer it this way, but the way that you just phrased it, ownership? Because I think the philanthropy world is thinking that you can just throw a bunch of money in the general direction of communities of color, and like, that's gonna fix a problem. Like, it doesn't really fix anything.
26:49
And in my view, although it's a, maybe it's a part of the equation, but you know, and then you have people who think that maybe if we just help people grow their existing small businesses, or maybe there's just the sense that like, if we can take some bite sized chunks out of things and incrementally grow some of the solutions that are already out in the world, that that's going to resolve it, like after George Floyd, there was so much so many pledges, right about money here, money there. But at the end of the day, even if 100% of those pledges turned out to be true, and what we know now is that 95% of them were not.
27:27
But even if 100% of those pledges billions and billions of dollars had turned into real money, communities of color in the United States still don't own the banks, the insurance companies, the wealth management firms, the Vanguard's the Fidelity's, where you put your 401k, the mortgage brokerages, like, we don't own the infrastructure of the economy. So no matter how much money you generally throw in the direction of communities of color, we're still not owning the house, we're just renting a room. And I think that ownership is the key.
28:01
So if you're doing philanthropy, or if you're investing in communities of color, whatever aspects of the equation you're thinking of being a part of, or even you're just deciding where to shop, you know, it's not enough that the sales person potentially be from your community, right? Is it owned by us? Yes or no? Right. That's the key. And I think that the ownership part of the story somehow got lost in the shuffle. And we seem to be satisfied with faces on brochures and annual reports. And not on, okay. This person is the CEO of this company, how much equity and how much ownership do they actually have in the company? Oh, 2%? Yeah, not good enough. Mm hmm. I think that's the piece.
Judy Tsuei 28:53
Yeah. And I love that. I mean, I think that even from you, you did your theater major, or you studied theater, even from like owning your voice in that platform as well and owning your story. Like that's like a first step towards moving towards that sense of ownership that you do have a right to be here, you do have value, like you said, like, even if you're around the smartest people in the room, there's still something that they don't know, and something that you can offer based on your own unique experience. I think that that's remarkable. Is there a tip that you can offer of how to get people to that sense of ownership or to that place?
29:27
Yeah, I think, you know, we every single dollar we spend right is a vote in one direction or another. And I think that we all have the ability to vote where we want to vote, right. And I think that that is one way. But I also think that people don't realize how much of a voice they actually have in bigger venues. So for example, if you graduated from a college, well, guess what, your college has an endowment, and some of those endowments are massive, right? I think about Columbia's endowment. It's over $10 billion and Even though people of color represent over 70% of the world, we manage less than 1% of the world's money.
Judy Tsuei 31:33
I love that. I love you illuminating that. So as we are drawing of the interview to a close, I wanted to ask you one of the questions because I mean, again, given your life experiences and all the different amazing things that you've done. What's a question that you wish people would ask you that they haven't asked you?
31:53
I think that as somebody who's done had to with the.com, crash and other situations have had to, I've had to do this a lot when people are starting businesses, and especially people who are thinking about getting investors and so on. And when you look at the media, and you see this company shut down, and this company, you know, cut 30% of its staff, whatever, I wish more people would ask me what it feels like to look somebody in the face and fire them.
32:20
Because we talk in terms of numbers and statistics, we hear about you know, 10% cutting staff or such and such office shut down until you know what it's like to look at hundreds of people in the face and fire them and know how it's impacting their families, their kids, their futures. You don't know how flippant and how casual some of those narratives are. Right. And I think that if more people felt and understood and heard stories about what that's like, we would have a lot more sensitivity around being so casual about starting and shutting down companies doing massive, massive layoffs.
33:04
Right. Like, I think that we need to have more of a rooting right, in the humanity of all of these startups. When we hear about venture capitalists, you know, at 70% of their portfolio is just not existing and going bankrupt. You know, and that founders fine, because that founder is probably some dude who has a trust fund. And he'll just go and start a second or third company. But what about the employees? Right? I think that those stories don't get told enough.
Judy Tsuei 33:39
Hmm. I love that. I think it routes down to empathy. Gary Vee is launching a book in November that's called like, 12 and a half. And it's all about the soft skills that nobody talks about when building a business, like the kindness kind candor, all of these kinds of things that he's like, I know, people think I'm tenacious and like, I'm just out there like whatever. But he's like, I feel like a lot of these soft you know, things like you were talking about empathy or whatever, just aren't really explored. They're not like highlighted his virtues and like ways to be,
34:07
I've never seen him use those. But
Judy Tsuei 34:09
yeah.
34:11
Strange person to author that book. But it sounds like a good idea. Maybe from a different author.
Judy Tsuei 34:16
He had a junior copywriter, I helped write it. The he brought him on to the call and everything I was like, Huh, that's interesting. That's different. And as we close the interview, too, I asked all the guests, you know, along this idea of fuck saving face, especially as you know, I think a lot of the guests that we've had on have had shared similar experiences or different viewpoints, just from growing up as an Asian American Pacific Islander, I'd love to know this idea of you know, because when I say facts, saving face, there's plenty of people of all different backgrounds who told me like oh, the guilt and the shame and like, you know, all the things that we go through, especially for mental and emotional health that's not just segmented to like the API audience. So along those lines, what do you wish that people would say like fuck saving face about or like change? The rhetoric around.
35:03
I think that when we talk about all communities of color, we, and I'm going to take a page from somebody who I must credit treyvion shorters who coined this idea of asset branding. We do the equivalent when we call a group vulnerable, rather than a group that's under attack, or when we call a group disadvantage, you know, underrepresented, underprivileged. treyvion calls it like the equivalent of showing up to a party with a friend and being like, Hey, this is my friend, Judy, she used to let her bad when she was a kid.
35:43
Does that yeah, like who introduces somebody and picks the least attractive quality in their history? Sorry, for anybody listening, I have no idea of God as to when you know, who does that? What a horrible thing to do to something that you presumably respect and, and yet we do that for communities of color all the time we introduce them, we name institutions, after the thing that they are most lacking, right? Or the moment in history that was the most devastating, or, you know, rather than picking out what are the assets that that community or that person or that, you know, affinity group bring to the world, right?
36:30
The same way that you would when you bring somebody to a dinner party, and you say, This is my friend, Judy, she's a rockstar writer, and a podcaster. And she's out there telling stories about people in her community that really matter, right? Like, of course, you're going to start by framing it with an asset rather than a deficit. And I think that if you start thinking that way, you start uncovering so many situations, where your own community or maybe you yourself are describing other communities in a way that really centers their deficits.
Judy Tsuei 37:01
Hmm. I love that. I think that that is, you know, something that we're just, there's another podcast, I'm having the hosts on the it's called Dear White women and their two biracial women who have done a lot of historical like uncovering and just sharing that, when we were when Asian Americans were called the model minority, it was at the same time that black civil rights was coming up. So then you have the greater whole is trying to pit two populations against each other. But instead of examining that construct, we got stuck in the actual tangible, tactical, everyday kind of living of it. And so I think what you're saying right now, is that uncovering of like, Wait, where did we even come up with these terms in the first place? Like why are we even using this? Is it serving? What is it? Exactly? Center?
37:47
You know, like, the word minority, right? How are you calling 70% of the world, a minority, every statistic shows that the US it was 2050, then it was 2045. I think the last one is maybe 2040. Like, we're getting closer and closer. majority people of color, and how long are we going to still call this entire group of people a minority? And again, who does it serve? Yeah. Who does it center? Whose savior complex? Does it bead? I think those are all good questions to ask.
Judy Tsuei 38:20
Thank you so much for your time, I hope that everybody goes out and reads this book there. I also love that you have the short chapters, so you can like dive in, get that nugget and then go out and like do the thing. The book was
38:30
largely written for busy moms. You know, there's a reason it was in paperback and hardcover, like you, I don't want people to be precious about it. Oops, I accidentally got some poop on this page. Like it was rolled up in a pipe in your diaper bag. And that's okay.
Judy Tsuei 38:48
And where can people follow you if they want to continue to learn about the things that you're working on? Or the different, you know, messages that you have the different insights that you shared?
38:57
Yeah, I'm on all the social media channels except tick tock, and apparently I have to fix up because my CTO just told me that I need to get on the tick tock thing. So anyway, I'm anywhere I'm everywhere, either as Twitter for example, Natalie Molina, because they have a character limit. Or for example, on Instagram as the full name Natalie Molina, Nino and yeah, I'm always posting sometimes about the things that I'm working on. And sometimes just doggy pictures.
Judy Tsuei 39:25
Yeah, you have too big. What kind of dogs are they? Cha cha. Cha Cha is yeah, they're over 60 pounds. Oh, that's wonderful. Thank you so much for your time today.
39:35
Thank you, thank you for everything that you're doing.
Judy Tsuei 39:40
I have to tell you that I was so honored that Natalie took the time to connect with me. You would never believe you know who you can access and connect with once you just put yourself out there so I had tagged her in reading her book and I posted it in an Instagram stories and then it led to a conversation so I highly encourage you if you are you know passionate about what it is that you're doing. You want to start to elevate and expand your network to really just put yourself out there for all of my experience in marketing, and pitching and PR and and just being a freelancer and a consultant. So much of it is just having the Moxie to show up.
Judy Tsuei 40:17
And you know, it can be hard when you've heard that adage before, what's the worst that can happen? They say no, when you're doing something that you care about, and you're really passionate about it. It's not always like that. There's more to it than that. But at least you will know that you took the chance. And recently I was riding on peloton and Robin, Arsan is my favorite instructor on peloton, but she was saying like, you're gonna regret not trying more than you're gonna regret trying and having done the hard thing, which I absolutely agree with.
Judy Tsuei 40:49
If you would like to continue the conversation, I hope that you'll sign up for our newsletter for weekly updates and check in if you want to follow what it is that Wildheart AdWords is doing as a content marketing agency, if that's something that we can support you with, feel free to reach out to us, my team of writers and project manager are amazing. They are phenomenal humans. And the content that we're putting out is incredible, especially for any one in the Health, Wellness, health tech, kind of psychedelic medicine and crypto spaces.
Judy Tsuei 41:17
Also, I'll dive into crypto a little bit more further on in our podcast. It's something that I'm super passionate about now. And you know, we talked about equity and inclusion. And while it's not a perfect model by any means, I think it's very exciting to think about the innovation of more ways in which you can set yourself up for success that kind of bucks, what we've known and what we've done up until now. So thank you so much for listening. I hope you got a lot out of today's episode. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode.
Judy Tsuei 41:50
You can follow me on Instagram at F*ck saving face or have an honest conversation with me in my private Facebook group f*ck saving face. That's f*ck without the U, if you enjoy this work, please help support and sustain it. The best ways to do that are to share it with your friends and networks. Subscribe rate and review on your listening platforms. And of course through your thoughtful financial donation. You can buy me a coffee or treat me a lunch or share even bigger lap at fuck saving face.com Again, that's F*ck without the U.
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