EPISODE 85: SEX: WE’RE ALL THINKING ABOUT IT, SO LET’S TALK ABOUT IT WITH VERONICA YANHS
Veronica Yanhs lives her life unapologetically laid bare. From the spreadsheets to the bedsheets she’s completely open about who she is: CEO, kinky, feminist, foodie, and a lover of puns. Since graduating from Stanford University in 2012, following a career in Product Design + Operations (with Apple and Nike), she’s helped CEOs unkink their businesses through her digital operations agency, Business Laid Bare.
Using her Orgasmic Operations® method, she helps 6 + 7-figure businesses create well-lubricated operations to make their next level of business insanely pleasurable, sustainable, and full of ease. (On the side, she teaches kink and BDSM to beginners in a fun and easy way.)
Website
https://www.businesslaidbare.com/
https://www.instagram.com/businesslaidbare/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/veronicayanhs/
SHOW NOTES
If you’re anything like me when I still felt shameful around sex, you’re probably wildly curious about what the title of today’s episode could mean, while being equally terrified and maybe even guilty.
But the reality is, as paradigm-shifting people like Veronica have shown me, it’s time to stop sweeping topics under the carpet and ignoring them like they don’t exist.
Everyone thinks about sex, so let’s talk about it.
Veronica, our guest and the founder of Business Laid Bare, unknowingly became interested in kink culture at 4 years old after seeing Red Jasmine for the first time in the Disney movie, Aladdin. Fast forward to today and Veronica is living out her most authentic life, blending business with her passion for kink and BDSM culture. But her story goes beyond sex. (Although she’s on a mission to “un-taboo” the topic.)
Her journey has shown her that her calling is to empower other folks to unapologetically live out the life they’ve always envisioned for themselves — not what society or our families have prescribed to us.
This episode is a must-listen for anyone out there who feels the tug to do the same but feels blocked by trauma, expectations, self-consciousness, or other forces. We also talk about consent, what BDSM and kink culture is, and the history of how Asian women are portrayed in the media.
Warning: potentially triggering topics about relationships and sex are mentioned in this episode.
We also explore:
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Hello and welcome to the fuck saving face podcast we're empowering mental and emotional health for Asian Americans by breaking through taboo topics like may not always be pretty but it is indeed let's make your story beautiful okay I just celebrated my forty fourth birthday and I'm very blessed to have been able to celebrate it in basically the span of a week and a half from Mexico to Hawaii so I went to the Big Island and the island does what she has always done for me which is kind of enveloped me in the sense of maternal nurturing energy and create a lot of flow and a lot of magic we were on the Big Island we got to swim with manta rays we got to see the top of Maunakea which is you know one of Hawaii's most sacred spiritual sites and to see from the tallest mountain in the world which you might think it's Everest but the way that they measure it is from the base of the oceans so from there seeing the sky above the clouds was remarkable and then also being able to see an active lava flow %HESITATION which is associated with the card S. palay so all of this was an opportunity for me to just be held and reflect and in my now forty fourth here I feel this sense of inner peace of self acceptance and it doesn't mean that everything's perfect because just this weekend I took my daughter to go see the tiniest penguins and the world's at the birch aquarium in San Diego and while we were there she was very much convinced that we had been there before and I kept telling her no Babe we've not been here before she's like I have I remember that room and I'm like now they've we've never been here before and then she said oh that must be my other mom it took me a moment because initially I thought she meant you know this imaginary life that she and her friends are created from when we're living in Taiwan one of her friends always talk about this other family that she had so initially I thought it was that and then I realized she was referring to her dad's girlfriend so I walked away when she got called away from her friends and I went and sat and stared at the screen about coral just kind of taking a moment to myself and I happened to pass my partner you know on the way to the screen just quickly told him what happened and that morning was filled with us participating more actively in each other's children's lives %HESITATION so there were moments where we kinda had conversations with each other's children just to help each other out and he had told Wilder you know I think you can give your mom a hug she might really need it and I he told me that he said to her you know you only have one mom and he ask me if it was okay that he has said that he didn't want to overstep and so she came over and she said mom I didn't mean to offend you and keep in mind my daughter seven and a half so I said I know them you know I want you to be able to love other people and I'm so grateful that other people love you and you know I work really hard to be your mom and sometimes it's just a bit hard to share interest she I could see she felt so badly that she made me that you hurt my feelings and I said I'm an adult I can handle it it's okay to have hurt feelings and so we talk through it we talk through it %HESITATION the rest of that kind of moment there that afternoon and then into the evening and just reassured her that I want her to feel love and to be loved and I don't want her to feel guilty about loving anyone else I think that that's remarkable but I've also done a lot of work on healing my own mother wounds to be able to create a different relationship with my daughter than you know I had with my own mother and so it's taken a lot of work and also growing up because I had to play the maternal role for my three younger siblings I felt I had to step into this mom role while my sister got to beat their sister and so I missed out on this opportunity and as a parent there so much at stake I'm gonna hold you know firmer boundaries all of that kind of stuff and everyone else gets to love her differently and experience for differently than I do because of the unique relationship that I have with her and I reassured her that we have a special connection through time and space I will always be her mom her dad will always be her died and then everyone else is you know extra bonus love %HESITATION it's one of the ways that she told me I think the potentially the sentence that got to me more even after she said it must be my other Mamas I thought you know you called her bonus %HESITATION someone somewhere along the lines had shared with me that that's what they had heard her dad's girlfriend being addressed as and when I said that she said yeah but I just like to call her you know mom or other mom and so for my daughter from her perception this person's important to her and for me you know from an ego it kind of place it's this I worked so hard to be this kind of mom that I want to be and to someone else just to get to stop in and enjoy the bounty about it kind of brought up the whole I had to play the mom my sister got to be there sister just someone else getting to enjoy these elements that I may not get to experience in the same way so it's been an interesting inner journey over the last couple of weeks of being in this remarkable place with my partner and with the place that we've been around the world and then coming back into our lives and integrating and continuing to grow but all along the way %HESITATION you know I've listened to a bunch of podcasting kind of reframed my mindset around things that I've long held as beliefs of needing to make the most of every single second and perhaps it's just aging into a different era or whatever it is but I've been listening to podcasts about how our culture the way that it celebrates the side hustle and just a hustle hustle is just a lot you know why not and I read about this on linkedin I appreciate the fact that I have a full time job and an agency and it affords me the lifestyle that I want a house for my daughter to set us up in myriad ways so I think that it's okay to reflect upon your core beliefs and to allow yourself the opportunity to evolve and grow with the new wisdom that you have as your living each day forward there's a lot that we don't know yet we will only know as we live into it so I'm in that space right now and that's why it today's gas for Annika Jahns is so intriguing to me she has definitely taken who she is personally and brought it into the professional sphere unapologetically so her bio likes to say that she lives her life unapologetically laid bare from the spread sheets to the bed sheets she's completely open about who she is C. E. O. kinky feminist foodie and a lover of puns after graduating from Stanford University followed by a career in operations with influenced by human centered design principles she founded business laid bare and now works with her team to help impact driven businesses streamline their internal operations so that doing good and doing well happen with immense pleasure use and sustainability she has this orgasmic operations method and on the side she teaches kink and BDSM to beginners and a fun and easy way I you know if you listen to the last couple of seasons of the show you'll know that we've talked openly about sex about our own relationship with said of pleasure of enjoyment %HESITATION rahi chimed in the first season was so phenomenal with his approach to just being able to be E. N. that orgasmic state and so being able to see someone who takes that into the professional sphere is remarkable because I think for so many of us especially any of us to raise the traditional parents who had held firm beliefs of not talking about sex or definitely not talking about it and the professionals here raga is you know embracing it all and living into it with full confidence and really creating remarkable results for her clients so I invite you to listen to this podcast episode with openness I have been listening to this other podcasts where you know when they kind of preview and say that there's going to be explicit language or that there's going to be you know potentially topics that may not be suitable for young here is they come up with creative ways to say it hello I will work on coming up with more fun ways to save that but hate the curse word is in the name of the podcast so what can you do %HESITATION so listen to it let me know what you think email me hello at fox saving face dot com also if you have a positive healthy you know sweet memory or learning or just something that you wanted to share and you want to wish me well in this next spin around the sun I would love to hear from you I've had such sweet messages for my friends who shared photos and anecdotes and things that I've forgotten or you know I didn't even know that that's how they perceive to me and what an impact it made on their lives and it was really such a wonderful gift for me to open at the end of the day on my actual birthday so enjoy the episode I am so thrilled to have my guest for Annika Jahn's on today and she's going to talk in just a moment about what it is that she does for her business is but I think that that team that's going to be kind of woven throughout today's episode is just really frankly speaking about sax and how we all think about it and we don't all talk about it and I don't know if you had parents like mine who immediately signed the waiver so that you can do sex education in school which unfortunately and the public school administration that I was a part of that I grew up in she didn't really tell you much and if the stomach leaks definitely did not tell you about like you know correct female anatomy in terms of like pleasure or even just owning it and I'm gonna turn it over to a brown occur really quickly and then after that I'm gonna do a little like a history lesson to kind of share why Asians Asian women especially have been fetishized I did the research for my book proposal not how I came to learn about a lot of this stuff %HESITATION but I'm just going to turn it over real quick our guests share about who she is okay but before I start though Judy can you just take a moment to like celebrate you for getting it a book proposal like how and like into the world like this is no small feat buy rating has been on my list because often times people have asked me like what books I recommend in the business world especially for like operations and systems as is what our business is about and I'm just like here are some recommendations but they don't really like touch upon what I really want to say and then how dare my clients and my team members go this is then the time for you to write this book and I'm just like how dare you all what I love that because I had just shared on Instagram that I got a box of the books that I didn't write and did publish to this independent publishing house that's distributed by Simon and Schuster so I had just finished volunteering with my daughter her school we created this lemonade and cookie stand it was so much work I'm for the student makers market was a lot of fun and then we got home we were a bit tired and my friend happened to be over and then the UPS guy shows up and delivers this box and so we're all looking at each other like did you order something because I don't order anything and then that you know while they're trying to like pick up this heavy box and bring it inside and I was so confused and so I ripped it up and it just so happened that the way that I open the box all of the books came spilling out onto the ground and I was like oh my gosh it's my books and my daughter was there to witness that moment you think and it was really exciting because earlier in the week I had seen on linkedin the Supreme Court hearings and seeing you know this one iconic photo of twenty and her daughter and her just the focus is on her daughter steering her and like sh you can see how much is beaming with pride and I was saying oh I would love to have a moment like that with my own daughter and then there was you know a few days later me getting to have that and then the holding the book in my hands being like oh my gosh I actually did this I think that it's so surreal to be able to have a tangible marker of an accomplishment and to also take a moment to sign because that's not what I you know know how to do that my parents didn't like get straight A. pluses who cares celebrated for the I. one point in college I was getting all these words and finally when I just looked at my mom like why do you not you know celebrate any of these accomplishments not like what we just know what's going to happen like you're just going to do these things like okay %HESITATION I am grateful for you saying that thank you so much and this is why words of affirmation are my love language because just like you my parents didn't celebrate my success because they're like it's gonna happen why would I celebrate something that's not it like not Nestle a stretch but like it's inevitable and I'm just right but still I'm like probably ten years old nine ten eleven whatever age even until my thirties I'm just like nice yes to just be like Hey good job so you're going to hear about my late baggage and my dirty laundry in this episode but yeah it is what it is yes share with us about be laid bare and business laid bare yes so right now okay so if you want to know something about me I'm like a very much eight inch wide mile deep kind of person so I have this brand called be late there is the overarching umbrella brand that is about helping people show up one hundred percent unapologetically as they are meaning you've stripped away the layers of ugly Christmas sweaters others have bestowed upon you non consensually you know in the form of limiting beliefs family expectations societal cultural expectations assumptions and it's like what happens when your stripped bear either look weak or metaphorically how dare do you get to decide how do you want to show up in the world like when all of that stuff is gone and you're just here as you how do you want to like move through the world and so that to me is something that needs to be celebrated because especially like Chinese growing up %HESITATION I was always told what to do how to show up how to speak you know why say in ten words when you can do it in three there is always some sort of critique judgment it was never enough enough this was like a foreign concept to me so it's like maybe this is why I do what I do in both my business says because of again thank inst so for me business laid bare the house as I'm showing up to date in the world I'm the CEO of business late there and this is laid bare is an operations agency for lack of better terms like we help businesses run more efficient sustainable businesses with ease because if it doesn't feel good if there's no pleasure if there's no easy there's no sustainability there is no legacy there is no impact leaving your mark it's hard right why would you want to subject yourself to stressing out and burning out when there is a better way so we come in as our pleasure based and people first methodology and we help businesses do just that like if it doesn't feel good if it doesn't feel pleasurable like why are you doing it right and if it's not sustainable you're not going to be able to hold out long term like we always tell our friends and our clients like don't one night stand your operations even though we have nothing against one night stands and I say this because our brand for business laid bare is one thousand percent Saxon king positive so as a woman of color as someone who's Chinese and we're gonna talk about your research just like down the road just like I have to show up this way yes I know sex sells but that was not why I wanted to show up as a brand especially for operations and business as a sex positive brand it's because all my life I've hidden something big whether it's trauma child abuse sexual abuse you know whatever it was and this was the chance for me for the first time in my life just to be me again what would it be like for me to show up in the world and move through the world if I was a hundred percent and unapologetically me and naturally I think this is maybe a compliment to myself where I know the nuances of the kink in BDSM lifestyle because me my partner and I are like members of our global team community we have all the best friends oh my gosh that parties are great and I also know in depth about project management operations like this is the world I thrive in because this is my brave and so being able to put those things together has been so simple for me I don't know how to explain other than like it was the most natural thing and like hat tip I guess to myself people like this is so authentic like it doesn't feel like you're like forcing anything or making it up and I'm just like that's right because I don't know this is just me and I think that's where that ease comes in when I talk about ease it doesn't mean things are necessarily easy but it just means that you're in alignment that's what I got to say we help businesses run more efficiently my pleasure way with a season sustainability because making money it's important like profit is more important to us than revenue and when you have a lean operational backend means that your financial business how are better which means that you have more money in your pockets especially when we work with women powered businesses or he's who have historically and are currently marginalized so that when you have more money you can make better decisions for the world and the world will be better for it because you could talk because money talks that's my wife I love it I think that %HESITATION what drew me to you and why I wanted to interview you is because you clearly he bridged the distinction that people always say in business like you better have your professional style and not bring your personal stuff into it and you've not only you know broken down that old school barrier but done in a very graceful way a so you know when I saw that you were taking all of the ideas from the BDSM community and just putting sex first and foremost in your professional business I thought that that was remarkable and I'm curious about the journey that brought you there like how did you have the ovaries of steel to be able to do that and %HESITATION especially growing up you know as a Chinese American F. or D. yeah like how how did you get there and then also tell me more about BDSM I think that that is very under explored I mentioned before we got on here that I was gonna share you know and this is in the book proposal it's kind of it's it's a whole chapter around stacks and fetishization because yeah you often see Asian women being fetishized and then growing up I also have my parents were trying to run a bunch of different businesses one of them happened to be a VHS store when that was a thing and people are going to like you know mom and pop blockbuster shops and there was like a triple X. rated curtain that certain people went behind and then I would help out at my aunt and uncle's VHS store and so they're always be this awkward moment every now and again of some guy going behind the curtain coming up bringing the cover because that's what you've brought for them to give you the actual VHS tapes and so there sliding it across the counter I'm super under age like I have to be in junior high and younger and what all of that whole entire experience must have been like and then also you know just to have had these porn videos also a home that I would then discover as I'm moving into my teenage years and no one's talking to me about any of this and so I felt deep guilt and shame for something that's such a natural curiosity for Sri like preteens like moving into puberty yes so I would love to hear about what you know your experience has been yes so I'll I'll talk about both because both BDSM and like my life seems to kind of be peril out like they didn't know this until I was in my early twenties %HESITATION actually like late teens in %HESITATION in fan fiction was and still continues to be a thing not say I've read any lately but like reading Harry potter fan fiction was like my saving grace like this is why I might I was such a good writer college that might my college professor was like running can you read so differently than your peers and it's so refreshing it's great it's like who are your influences on just like you potter fanfics generators home and the reason I'm bringing this up is because yes I love Harry potter and that was Mike skate right and of course I read the steamy sex related ones and the not and there was this one fan fiction where it was Hermione exploring BDSM and she didn't know what it was like me most like most of us and we just stumble upon it because you have no words for it but it felt right and so the person I wrote the story is in the king community herself and so I would say that if you were to read that story it's so much healthier than say fifty shades of grey and I'm not here to knock people who love fifty shades of grey like we all have our gateway drugs and it's like even if you come through that way it's like well that's not exactly the healthiest but let me educate you and show you how it could be even better and so reading that story was very %HESITATION eye opening for me because I'm just like I kind of saw a lot of myself in her mind you might have very ambitious very smart you know note all yes brown nose or all that stuff and it's like and it's just like for her to be able to explore her submissive side of someone so dominant and powerful I was just like %HESITATION this could be a thing and then that's when you kind of like do you an introspection and then you go a how did this like how to get here and so the next milestone back was when I first watched this movie called secretary starring Maggie Gyllenhaal and James Spader and I don't know what that was but I really really liked it and I don't remember how I watched it but it's just like it happened and then I kept going backwards and I was just like oh my gosh Disney made me kinky or made me realize I was keen G. because I never could explain it but I was like a lot it was always like my favorite movie and it was because when jasmine was like captured by just far shackled thrown in our glass hand cost I was like that's it I want that in probably the speaks to like my childhood trauma and abuse and all that and I get it which is why I talk to my therapist about this all the time so I'm taking care of myself and I'm just like I want this but I have no idea what four years old or whatever %HESITATION toddler age and so that's when I realized when I was older just like I didn't want to be blue jasmine nobody wants the Taj Mahal or the flight Kerr bad or the type your what I'm just like I want to be read jasmine and my mom was always mad at me because she's like you always ask for the same costume the red jasmine costume but if there was never any in the kids sites it was always the blue one so it wasn't until my early twenties I was able to then after leaving a toxic relationship ends mind you I probably would have left that toxic relationship and abusive relationship had they not kicked me out so my girlfriend at the time had she not a kick me out I don't think I would have laughed so when people have conversations about why don't you just leave it for us Z. now what that conversation is so not helpful for anyone who's been in so any sort of relationship that has been abused especially if it was template for you and your family about bringing you defined that as normal and it makes it very hard especially with manipulation or like you know acts of power and aggression to be able to get yourself out of that situation and so I you know I want to tell anybody who's listening to this if you are in that situation you find yourself in that situation please see if you can avoid adding another layer of guilt or beating yourself up on top of it like I'm a smart person why am I not getting out of this nation I'm instead finding resources that can help you take the steps you need to find the ways out to create the life that you want to have in here I was like recently graduated from like a prestige is college like I went to Stanford and so it just like how did I show up how what did I do to deserve this right so I don't really have anything else I don't think wisdom to add in terms of how to get out of a situation like this I'm just showing my side of that I am grateful that they kicked me out instead so when they did that's when I was just like oh now is the chance that I could possibly explore something that I've been wanting to explore since I guess apparently for and so I attended my first Munch so in the kink world there are these meetups they're called Munch's because it's think of a good meet up you just show up at a bar or somewhere where there's food that's why I thought a bunch and you're in a non kinky setting so sometimes I feel like the word Bonilla is them in a way like offensive like you people who are non Kiki are also non black and not bland because I love my vanilla ice cream but it was just like you show up at a bar or restaurant and it's just like you meet other Kiki Falk because community trust friendship it's so important especially when even in mainstream Roger today kink is still very much an underground like wild wild west while there are the rules that you should abide by it good practice philosophies like consent it doesn't mean that it's the law that everybody follows I'm all about informed enthusiastic consent some people are more about implied consent right so that's never okay but that was a life changer for me because it allowed me to make friends that understood exactly who I was saw me for like the powerful person that I knew I could be the dominant ambitious C. E. O. feminist person who also wanted to surrender and Neil right and so it's like to be able to be seen that way was really really cathartic and healing I asked you so you know for anyone who's watched Ali Wong's comedy and her first stand up you know she obviously like she talks a lot about sacks and I feel like dismantles a lot of the beliefs around Asian women not speaking out or not being you know over or having sexual desires you know so that was one of the things I loved when I saw her stand the first time and she does have a scene where she talks about how when you are so powerful in the board room in the bedroom he wants someone else to take control and take power so that's one question I have is like do you feel like that is true slash and you know I think that and this may be a harder question and hopefully I'm not being offensive and asking it but I think that there's a correlation if you suffer trauma in it you can it lands to potential sexual behavior is that you know the dominant majority may or may not see as healthy or normal and so I kind of wanted to get your take on that and like how white within the community how is that scene how is it spoken about yes so everything up at least with the people that I surround myself with it especially with the main education organization in the local king scene it's like everything is about risk aware consensual kink right so it's %HESITATION it's consent in not only regular consent but informed consent and if you're not enthusiastically consenting it's a hell no right so for us it's like it's to the point where I after being in the community learn to ask my non cheeky friends before cove it happened I was like Hey they see you may I have a hug and there are like a thousand it going why are you asking me if I can if you could have a hug because unlike because you may not want a hug and I don't want to make assumptions right assumptions make an asset of everyone assumptions are dangerous mmhm so it's like I'd rather err on the side of respect and asked so to answer your question about that that like we've often talked about and these are not and nobody truly knows because a lot of this is anecdotal but we have these conversations regardless it's like do you think that we're all kinky because we suffered some sort of trauma and the answer is maybe possibly and but what's what's more important dissecting the past like this or being aware that if this is indeed the because at least you have a good outlet to be able to have that conversation with whether it's with a therapist because I have a therapist or and we talked about this a lot or with friends who are in the key community we just know that we're not alone so that's I'm like I'm not coming to you from like any professional educational sense rather than this is more anecdotal from my own story and experiences but I'm just like we have these conversations like do what we want does what we want come from our history our baggage and we're like and if it does this is how we address it how we are continuing to heal from it or to make it in a way that allows us to move forward to have some closure so I do have some friends who have told me because I've never this is the first time I heard about this like if you've been sexually violated without your consent in the past like it you know I was molested not less apt people did say that sometimes you are more likely to want to engage in some sort of like nonconsensual consensual kink I get called consensual non consent words like rape fantasy or some sort of held against your will thing because at any given time the person can relive their trauma on their own terms and knows that they have the power to say stock to use their safe word mmhm and then thanks stop so it's almost like it's a very visceral way of dealing with what happened and you can like reshape that memory so you never truly know what people are going through and I never want to make an assumption that what was it that correlation and causation statement it's like the answer is I don't really know but I can tell you what I've heard what people have said has been really healing like I used to have I used to be so not judgmental but like I was like wait a minute you experiences violation yet you want to re live it and they're like yeah because I can say stop anytime and I can show that my violator has no control over me that I can engage in whatever sexual fantasy I wanted even though kink is not about sex BDSM is not about sex eight it can be and if it is it's done in a way that I'm in control of so when you say that it's not about sex what is it about I think it's about the aspect of exploration and of being yourself and letting go so like there's a lot of keen can BDSM practices that are not sexual at all like rope or animal role playing or even like dominance and submission it's very much an energy power exchange and there can be no there does have to be sex involved interesting that's you know before Kevin times %HESITATION I was invited to go to this event that was all about consent and it was all about it was kind of the %HESITATION precursor meeting that you would go to if you wanted to participate and like you know public %HESITATION gatherings for like sexuality or sensuality or anything like that and me being the curious person than I am will always say yes to like learning or exploring or doing things that are outside what I would normally do because I want to learn more and want to know more and you know %HESITATION I think because also I didn't have the opportunity to explore like pleasure and a direct conversation or anything like that I had to learn fumbling through my life and are there like sexual experiences that I had that I would gladly be right if I could sure absolutely %HESITATION and a lot of it comes back to wishing that I valued myself more or having like more personal power or personal just the words to be able to set those healthy boundaries but when I was you know I walked into this room I had preconceived notions and I looked around the room and everybody looks so normal like like beyond normal beyond like anything that I you know it's like if you walk into a grocery store it would have been the same type of people that you would have seen and then hearing everyone's experiences and then hearing like these open and honest conversations about how you can establish consent how you can like you know stand up for yourself and I thought it was so healthy and the and to be able to do that with a room full of women and by the end of it I was looking around the room and everyone the lands that I saw everyone with had shifted I saw each person as individually so beautiful and like so wonderful and caring and I think that the exploration that you were speaking about is so key because when are you going to get an opportunity to do that and a safe space and like have these conversations that are on your mind they're in the back of your head you secretly probably want to talk about it but you're not going to take the initiative to go out there and do that and so it was actually a wonderful opportunity to explore %HESITATION and I think it it would be a good segue also to go into like this whole idea of fetishization and like how we can we break that down a bit to understand because I don't know if you've experienced this or anybody who's listening but sure enough I know that I have been like you know be on the receiving end of that kind of like feta fetishization lands like %HESITATION you're Asian and like you know whatever even though I feel like I am not need quote on quote or what I perceived it to be but then when I started diving into a little bit more like %HESITATION there's a historical reason that this happened and then you know here's where we are and and into present day like how quietly it seeps into everything and it was saying that like you know in %HESITATION there is actually I don't know this either Gina Davis has an institute on gender in media and they published a research paper called I am not a fetish for model minority redefining what it means to be a P. I. entertainment industry and they saw that these marginalized groups on screen and off screen with members in the entertainment industry we're always cast to play a common trope which is martial artist model minority or exotic woman and so like in contemporary media that's how we're seen and that women especially you know there's a percentage of how we like the amount of porn and like aggressive %HESITATION acts towards women of color to it it's just very alarming and but then the Chinese exclusion act of eighteen eighty tail it restricted one particular ethnic group from immigration and then from there because people were afraid that people from oriental countries would take your jobs it prevented Chinese men from starting families this was a conscious part of trying to restrict Asian immigration so that has the US expanded its military presence in Asia it created a military sexual complex the delivered deliver two trips the lotus flower and the dragon lady and the lotus flower you know like you'll see this in movies like full metal jacket where Vietnamese prostitute solicits to work trips and then back out samples into the two live crew song me so horny Sir mix a lot's song %HESITATION and so and you even see it in the forty year old virgin or family guy like they'll they'll say that same line over and over and then the dragon lady is like deceitful villainous it's like the embodiment of the yellow peril and then you see it in kill bill you see in an alley McBeal and and it just continues to like show up and so I think that historically understanding that that like that came from a construct out of fear is helpful to know why we don't want to do that we wouldn't really know this so so good thank you for that education and I want to circle back really quick the whole king thing because I am an educator at heart it's like the definition of kink in being kinky it's actually not easy but if we want to talk about the easier one BDSM it stands it's an acronym that stands for bondage and discipline to be in the deland dominance and submission the DNS sadism and masochism but that's only a really small subset of kink and for a really long time especially when I was running and educating in the kink world I often ask people because I was curious I was like Hey what is what is the definition of being can keep me do you and to nobody's surprise like it was really hard to come up with a definition but then they would give me examples getting tied up for blindfolded Spain whatever and I realize that the definition of key was hard because it was different for everybody and so the definition I came up with was like going against the grain of what society in your culture in your family expect from you and so for me let's just say like having sex with the lights on completely off the table has to be us so having sex with the lights on superteam heating rate but it can be very much your every Tuesday you can go you know I mean like right right why is having sex with the light on Kiki as like that's normal right so I think it's different for everybody because it's what was expected from you and you going against the grain of that so like it enel sexes like my every Tuesday but like all my god this is like Sally's first time trying it or Mike %HESITATION this is Devin like I will never do this it's like everybody's tolerance in variation of what it means to be kinky is different because everybody has a different life story and expectation so that to me when I talk about having a kink and BDSM positive brand it's like if you look at the business world there's not a lot of people that have combined to kink sex and BDSM and operate rations into one and the like the fact that I'm already a woman of color and then I'm Chinese it's like I told that minute being cute too versus being sultry and I've never for the record considered myself sexier sultry I'm more like cute and funny I think I'm funny like but it's like I do you consider that sometimes I'm like and depending on how I curated my audience like you either Love Me or hate me true stories but it's like I know that I can't just a hundred percent be free to just be out in the world because again of the whole what if I am seen as a fetish and I'm perpetuating the stereo type rate so the people that I surround myself with like yourself and my clients and staff they know that this is just a representation of me and how I need to show up but it's not about the sax it's more about the permission and the freedom and the joy that I feel to be authentic to myself yeah I mean I can feel your authenticity and all your work in the way to explain it and I feel that that's so healthy and strong and if more people would you know be allowed to do that I feel like a lot of the unhealthy versions that sexuality is explored can be mitigated giving you know like being able to have the freedom to do that %HESITATION and I think the more that we suppress these natural desires and urges them the more that we will find ourselves experiencing challenges I am you know I used to be a yoga teacher and so in that community when I was really deep and that there are versions of that where you don't engage in anything sexual because it's seen as like a lower vibration versus like you know being in a static and so thankfully I had a teacher who was talking to one time just like look I was born in this body to experience the world to its fullest in this form and one of the ways that you experience that is through connections with other people and that can be a physical connection or emotional connection and so I don't have that guilt or that like you know feeling that as I'm moving forward %HESITATION in my spiritual path that this is not acceptable and I really appreciate that because it was way that I would align with and I would agree with %HESITATION and you know so you all get that growing up in much about obligation and totally sorry you know sorry that you feel this way but it's not good for the family as a whole yeah so it's like every voice that I listened to was the wrong one like the one thing I have said this to you when we first met that's what it's like I listen to every voice but the one that need to be heard from the most which is mine and so it it's it's it's a tough path to walk and I think like who I am today is very much an embodiment of who I didn't who I wish what I wish I could have explored as a kid the whole words of affirmation and pleasure because it's yeah because obligation familles cation was on the other side of pleasure right and so it's like I wonder if it's just me being who I needed to be because this is who I am meant to be but also then not discounting and hating I don't hate my family let me just make that really clear like I don't hate my family or my culture is just they have their own history yeah I think that they grew up with and their stories right and so it's like things get passed down from generation to generation or like generational trauma happens and it's like it's my job to either stop it or to have a conversation and but I just know that how I show up is how I'd believed to need to be the most like the proudest version of myself and so how can I integrate aspects of our Asian heritage that is so great in a way that like blends with how I also see the world as someone living in the United States mmhm so it's just a matter of picking and choosing and I think that's what it means ultimately to be a feminist to me because oh my gosh that was a struggle Mike here I am Die Hard took feminist studies one on one and just about to explore the king communities so like all the people that work so hard to give me my rights as a woman today just go out the door because I want explore submission and I'm like actually no because feminism is the right to choose your own path whatever that may be selling seven order statement it's like I am a feminist and ambitious the CEO and I'm also kinky and submissive and I'm just me multi faceted ever involving an emotional so as we get ready to wrap up the interview I asked every day if you could say fuck saving face to an idea or you know a story what would you say fuck seven base about I'm god I have a list so like nothing to prepare for this when you ask this I was just like this happen in this in this mess and so it's almost like maybe the word is not pretending but it's just like assimilation even though funny enough my family wanted me to assimilate because they didn't want me to be made fun of but when I say assimilation it means like I was very much that yes mom yes dad whatever makes the family happy type of person do what I'm told so fuck saving face because we didn't do what you're told you would get looked down upon and I don't and I hate being a disappointment I'd rather you be angry with me then be disappointed with me so maybe there was that that's what I was referring to like that obligation that assimilation towards the your family in the Chinese world so that's what I would say fuck saving face you because then you don't save face thank you don't have the space you need to save that was very long winded at a Hyatt lake yeah that made sense it might make it more eloquent well I was just thinking about that movie turning red that came out recently and I had challenges with watching that movie because you know my daughter was so excited about air her last name you know she's like very much resonates with this fox imagery %HESITATION and its trains but the way that they demonstrated how much she yielded to her parents to create group harmony it was very challenging to watch because I feel like it was yeah it was both trying to break that trope but it was also underscoring it again because it was taking it to such an extreme and like the mom and like the pressure that she put on her daughter and how much her daughter yielded and you know all of these things that I was like okay I get what you're trying to say I feel like it's not really like demonstrating it in the best light possible you know even though there's like a resolution at the end and like there's a learning and you see these characters like individual struggles and how they got to this place I'm but I think so much of it is yeah growing up in those high pressure high context environments where you have to think about the group mentality and yield and sacrifice for the group as a whole and then also just like the backlash that you get when you aren't respecting your elders when you are bringing that kind of disappointment like you know there's a reason that in the previous season the therapist said that the number one emotion she sees Asian Americans grappling with the shame and so you know so I appreciate you coming on and kind of breaking through intentionally misconceptions and just explaining yeah BDSM and kink I feel like we could totally dive into all of this so much more and there are plenty of more questions that I want to ask so perhaps we'll bring you back proceeds into another episode excited so fuck obligation maybe that's the one I like that show up as who you're meant to be I want to be yeah let's just start with one to beat yeah yeah that's one to be kinky and running my business and having a great time with word pines like the staff the staff lay yeah just have fun having shorts amazing I'm so where can people follow up with you yes so I am a business labor dot com so you can you see the website and I'm on Instagram and I also have a linkedin profile and I can send you all that information depending on how you all want to sign to me and it can be a strip show notes about that and if you're actually interested in operational staff I can also drop a guide that I created for businesses who actually would benefit from like an operations audit and like how they can make your operations more orgasmic because we've finally got registered by the USPTO like the yeah mark organizations are now orgasmic operations is actually helping because it's how we help businesses create really fun and pleasurable operations through people purpose and process the really loud bang diagram and I can't wait to see it thank you so much for your time today already have you got a lot of that and I look forward to connecting with you next week as we explore a personal essay and you know we'll see what it'll be about we'll see what the universe brings into my sphere to share with you have a lovely week want to support this podcast you can do so encrypted if you'd like to send your dollars A. K. fiat currency to me via the cash app which uses a super fast lightning network I can convert it into a big point you can find me on the cash app by typing in dollar sign Judy sway T. S. U. he but if you actually like to send me a direct crypto currencies email me at hello at fox saving face dot com and we can exchange crypto wallet addresses more ways you can support the podcast every sharing this with your friends family anybody you think might enjoy this and remember to go get your copy of the little book of Tibetan rites and rituals and finds a noble Amazon audible or whatever you'd like to get your books make your story beautiful today
